[Equest-users] Wizard DX EER Correction
Carol Gardner
gems at spiritone.com
Thu Aug 14 00:18:58 PDT 2008
Scott Criswell knows what's in the background. Scott.Criswell at doe2.com.
Carol
Robby Oylear wrote:
>
> Thanks Paul,
>
> We actually have that equation floating around the office and I wasn’t
> sure where it came from either. Does anyone out there know where it
> comes from?
>
> By the way, it is a little misleading to say that EIR does not include
> supply fan energy. If you have convert an EER or COP from a
> manufacturer to an EIR without using something to remove fan heat,
> then it will have fan energy.
>
> I was hoping to use the wizard interface to remove the fan energy from
> an ARI rated EER and was wondering if it was possible that anyone knew
> exactly what was going on in the background. The equation you gave
> doesn’t quite match the adjusted EER that the wizard gives out.
>
> Robby Oylear
>
> /Mechanical Engineer/
>
> direct: 206.788.4571
>
> cell: 206.354.2721
>
> www.rushingco.com <http://www.rushingco.com>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* Paul Riemer [mailto:Paul.Riemer at dunhameng.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 13, 2008 3:13 PM
> *To:* 'Robby Oylear'; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* RE: [Equest-users] Wizard DX EER Correction
>
> I thought Andrew said this mostly well but maybe equations would help.
>
> EER = (Cooling Output Btu/hr ) / (Supply Fan W + Compressor W +
> Condenser Fan W)
>
> COP = Output / Input and is unitless
>
> EIR = 1/COP (so it is also unitless) = (Compressor Input + Condenser
> Input) / (Cooling Output)
>
> So hopefully you see that EIR does not include supply fan energy. All
> fan energy is modeled in DOE-2 based on the separate fan energy inputs
> and assumptions. Of course ASHRAE 90.1-2004 Section 6 and Appendix G
> including amendments prescribe baseline fan power limits and part load
> performance.
>
> I believe the Standard Test Procedure for determining the EER rating
> includes a prescribed external static pressure but exactly what
> portion of the total unit electric energy is due to the supply fan
> would vary a little from unit to unit based on type of fan, internal
> static losses, etc.
>
> So the eQUEST WIZARD is removing an assumed standard fan component
> from the entered EER and doing a units conversion to determine a
> cooling efficiency (EIR) for DOE-2.
>
> I have in my files:
>
> EIR = (1/EER-0.012167)/((1/3.413)+ 0.012167)
>
> EIR = (1/SEER*0.778+1.4)-0.012167)/((1/3.413)+ 0.012167)
>
> I do not recall where I found this but obviously I attribute it to the
> above eQUEST development team. I do apologize if it is out of date,
> misinterpreted, or mistyped.
>
> I encourage digging deep through the program, its help files, and the
> various archives and also attending a training session like the Energy
> Center of Wisconsin's with Marlin Addison.
>
> Paul Riemer
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
> [mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of
> *Robby Oylear
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 13, 2008 1:19 PM
> *To:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* [Equest-users] Wizard DX EER Correction
>
> Sorry to dig up an old topic, but I have a question about the
> wizard that was talked about a year ago. As mentioned below, the
> wizard will change the efficiency you input into the program, but
> I can not figure out what the change is based on. One would assume
> its taking into account the fan power, but by changing the fan bhp
> entry in the wizard I see no change in the EIR that is output by
> the wizard.
>
> Does anyone have any insight as to how the wizard reaches the
> resulting EIR for DX units?
>
> Robby Oylear
>
> /Mechanical Engineer/
>
> direct: 206.788.4571
>
> cell: 206.354.2721
>
> www.rushingco.com
> <http://console.mxlogic.com/redir/?2OVtNCZSjqrXXRTDD3o0abt2sE4rlVsTvHECzBAQsK8FzC3tPvyPvQCnrFYq5O5mUm-wafBiteH3O3szQ9g8Y01dFLELc6QkQnD7QnSnzr9EVdCBIq5C_FcKTjUQdbFEw0mgFIk3h070cq81Eq1pEw4GNzZFOH0TfM-u0USyrjdFLLLnuuudYFek>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* BLDG-SIM at gard.com [mailto:BLDG-SIM at gard.com] *On Behalf Of
> *Andrew Craig
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 29, 2007 12:06 PM
> *To:* BLDG-SIM at gard.com
> *Subject:* [BLDG-SIM] a qucik question about Cooling EIR -- eQuest
>
> Anna---
>
> The EIR in eQUEST is the combined efficiency of the unit condenser
> and compressor while the ASHRAE code EER or SEER values are the
> entire packaged unit efficiency. You'll notice if you enter a
> published EER or SEER in the wizard and then check the EIR output
> in the detailed edit mode, it does not equal 3.413/EER because it
> isn't taking into account the fan efficiency or inefficiency
> depending on how you look at it.
>
> If you are doing a model for LEED, the way I have been advised to
> model packaged units is to enter the ASHRAE Table values in the
> wizard (EER or SEER) and let the program parse out the components
> of EIR and fan power. Then, calculate the baseline fan efficiency
> and enter that number in the detailed edit mode, overriding the
> wizard created value.
>
> I have heard from members on the ASHRAE committee that Appendix G
> does not handle this issue very well and it seems to be something
> that could be refined. If anyone out there has a more definitive
> stance on the proper way to model packaged units in eQUEST with
> regards to ASHRAE/Appendix G, please chime in.
>
> Regards,
>
> Andrew Craig, EIT, LEED® AP | Mechanical Designer
>
> INTERFACE ENGINEERING
>
> 708 SW Third Avenue | Suite 400 | Portland, OR 97204
>
> direct: 503.382.2696
>
> office: 503.382.2266
>
> fax: 503.382.2262
>
> email: Andrew_C at ieice.com
>
> web: www.ieice.com
>
> Consultants of Choice to the Built Environment for over 35 years
>
> Kirkland, WA | Portland, OR | Sacramento, CA | Salem, OR |
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>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BLDG-SIM at gard.com [mailto:BLDG-SIM at gard.com] On Behalf Of
> Anna Liu
> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 11:38 AM
> To: BLDG-SIM at gard.com
> Subject: [BLDG-SIM] a qucik question about Cooling EIR -- eQuest
>
> Hello all,
>
> I have a quick question about the Cooling EIR in
>
> eQuest. If I got COP from ASHRAE90.1-2004 Table 6.8.1,
>
> then EIR=1/COP. Does this caculation include the
>
> supply fan electrical energy already or not?
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Regards,
>
> Anna
>
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