<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br>This is probably slightly tangential to the original post, Mohammad, but after being frustrated with my inability to model it, I built one at scale, and measured it. <br><br>I used relatively fast moving air as insulation, for a cold storage box that served as a collector for a heated soil greenhouse, heated by an air source heat pump made from a window mount AC unit. Cold storage box was built in a standard non insulated 20' truck body and its outer surfaces absorbed heat from the air and sunlight outside and transferred it to the evaporator on a 24000 BTU/hr heat pump that was plumbed to heat water that was used to heat the soil below the planting beds in an attached 3,000 sf commercial greenhouse,using a shell and tube heat exchanger. Evaporator chilled and dessicated the air that returned to the cold storage box. Measured energy reduction was approximately 75% depending on outside air temp and other factors. <br><br>Temp targets were controlled from both soil and cold box via PID controllers. Duty cycle for the compressor was typically below 30%. The cold storage box walls are shown in the attached schematic and used 6" foam studs and 3/4" foam walls (one side covered with reflective mylar to seal the surfaces against colonization by mold). The duct was 6" deep and 24" wide. The foam panels were glued to the studs to create a continuous folded duct. Warmest air was collected near the ceiling by a wall mounted fan and pushed through the duct and collected on the far side of the evaporator by a second fan and returned to the cold box through a ceiling mounted plenum. Pressure differential between the two sides of the evaporator indicated icing on the fins on the evaporator coil and triggered the defrost cycle. <br><br>This approach achieved a dramatic reduction in heat gain inside the cold box, and on a 90F day, the measured temperature of the moving air inside the wall gained less than 10F from one end to the other. The system is fairly well documented online. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><img src="cid:ii_kr2cuf795" alt="plenum.png" width="480" height="304"><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 9:04 AM Bishop, Bill via Bldg-sim <<a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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<p class="MsoNormal">Mohammad,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">A schematic or drawing of your wall would be helpful. It sounds like you’re researching solar thermal storage. One implementation is known as a “Trombe Wall”. You may find this information of Trombe Wall simulation in EnergyPlus helpful:
<a href="https://bigladdersoftware.com/epx/docs/8-0/engineering-reference/page-104.html" target="_blank">
https://bigladdersoftware.com/epx/docs/8-0/engineering-reference/page-104.html</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">~Bill<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Medium",sans-serif;color:black">William Bishop, PE, BEMP, BEAP, CEM, LEED AP<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Senior Energy Engineer<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u><img width="105" height="73" style="width: 1.0937in; height: 0.7604in;" src="cid:17aa0e694dc5b006a1" align="left" hspace="12" alt="Pathfinder-EA-logo-2"><u></u><u></u><img width="136" height="84" style="width: 1.4166in; height: 0.875in;" src="cid:17aa0e694dc772f6c2" align="left" hspace="12" alt="Logo
Description automatically generated"><u></u><b><span style="font-size:2pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:wbishop@pathfinder-ea.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">bbishop@pathfinder-ea.com</span></a><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"> </span><a href="http://www.pathfinder-ea.com/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">www.pathfinder-ea.com</span></a><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">134 South Fitzhugh Street<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Rochester, NY 14608
<img border="0" width="26" height="23" style="width: 0.2708in; height: 0.2395in;" id="gmail-m_-5336530107086765551Picture_x0020_6" src="cid:17aa0e694dc855d353">
</span><i><span style="font-size:7pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,176,240)">Ask me why Carbon Fee & Dividend may be right for you.</span></i><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Mohammad Rezvanpour <<a href="mailto:moh.rzv@gmail.com" target="_blank">moh.rzv@gmail.com</a>> <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 2, 2021 11:30 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Bishop, Bill <<a href="mailto:bbishop@pathfinder-ea.com" target="_blank">bbishop@pathfinder-ea.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Simulation of a hollow ventilated wall<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Bill,<br>
<br>
Thank you for your response.<br>
<br>
Imagine a hollow wall, where air or water can travel through it. On one side, heated air (passive or active) go through the wall and exchange heat with the masonry wall and goes out from the other side. Here, it is of utmost importance to evaluate how the wall's
thermal performance (i.e. what its temperature is, how much energy it can store) is likely to affect the home environment (e.g. how temperature fluctuation changes, how about thermal comfort, etc.).<br>
Obviously, there is more to this project than this, but this is a general overview of the process.<br>
<br>
I really appreciate your help in advance.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Mohammad<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 8:41 AM Bishop, Bill <<a href="mailto:bbishop@pathfinder-ea.com" target="_blank">bbishop@pathfinder-ea.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Mohammad,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Can you share more detail about what you want to simulate?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">~Bill<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Medium",sans-serif;color:black">William Bishop, PE, BEMP, BEAP, CEM, LEED AP</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Senior Energy Engineer</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u><img width="105" height="73" style="width: 1.0937in; height: 0.7604in;" src="cid:17aa0e694dc935e6e4" align="left" hspace="12" alt="Pathfinder-EA-logo-2"><u></u><u></u><img width="136" height="84" style="width: 1.4166in; height: 0.875in;" src="cid:17aa0e694dca175ef5" align="left" hspace="12" alt="Logo
Description automatically generated"><u></u><b><i><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,32,96)">T:
(585) 698-1956</span><span style="color:rgb(0,32,96)"> </span></i></b><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">F: (585) 325-6005</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:wbishop@pathfinder-ea.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">bbishop@pathfinder-ea.com</span></a><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"> </span><a href="https://us-east-2.protection.sophos.com?d=pathfinder-ea.com&u=aHR0cDovL3d3dy5wYXRoZmluZGVyLWVhLmNvbS8=&i=NWZjNTI0OTJkYjA1OTYwZGY1NmNjOGVj&t=R0FBZGpNdEpKTEZDMVZjVlBhZW9mM3dpVnBpWkk3SzQyVVNCS1RhejhBcz0=&h=ca76026cf04742fab3b4a151a6d0fbe0" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">www.pathfinder-ea.com</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">134 South Fitzhugh Street</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Rochester, NY 14608
<img border="0" width="26" height="23" style="width: 0.2708in; height: 0.2395in;" id="gmail-m_-5336530107086765551gmail-m_3172384135493036862Picture_x0020_6" src="cid:17aa0e694dc855d353">
</span><i><span style="font-size:7pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,176,240)">Ask me why Carbon Fee & Dividend may be right for you.</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Bldg-sim <<a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Mohammad Rezvanpour via Bldg-sim<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 30, 2021 6:18 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Bldg-sim] Simulation of a hollow ventilated wall<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Roboto;color:rgb(17,17,17)">Hello everyone,<br>
I hope all is well with you.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Roboto;color:rgb(17,17,17)">The goal is to simulate a
<b>hollow ventilated wall</b> (Air or water could travel through the wall -- interior and exterior) for its
<b>energy performance</b>, but I need to know what options I have. I can indeed use CFX (a tool inside the ANSYS workbench) to do such simulations, but I would like to know if there is a simpler, more efficient, or more recent program that I can use.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Roboto;color:rgb(17,17,17)">I greatly appreciate your suggestions in advance.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Roboto;color:rgb(17,17,17)">Best,<br>
Mohammad</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Arial Black",sans-serif">Kind regards,</span></b><br>
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<span style="font-family:Georgia,serif">Mohammad Rezvanpour<br>
PhD student of Building Science and Engineering <i>(CEE department), <br>
</i>Donadeo Innovation Centre for Engineering (DICE)<i>, </i>University of Alberta, Edmonton, AB, Canada</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Arial Black",sans-serif">Kind regards,</span></b><br>
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<span style="font-family:Georgia,serif">Mohammad Rezvanpour<br>
PhD student of Building Science and Engineering <i>(CEE department), <br>
</i>Donadeo Innovation Centre for Engineering (DICE)<i>, </i>University of Alberta, Edmonton, AB, Canada</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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