<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=Windows-1252">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)">
<!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style><![endif]--><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p
{mso-style-priority:99;
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
p.msonormal0, li.msonormal0, div.msonormal0
{mso-style-name:msonormal;
mso-style-priority:99;
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
span.EmailStyle19
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:#1F497D;}
span.EmailStyle20
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Per 90.1-2016 Appendix G, table G3.1 (10.d), the proposed case should be modeled with the same cooling system as the baseline when the proposed design does not
have a cooling system. For northern Europe, you are looking at system 1 (PTAC plus boiler). Assuming there is no cooling load, the cooling system would have no impact on your energy use. But if there is a cooling load in the baseline and not in the proposed
(due to cooling load-reducing features), then the proposed design will get credit for it.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Rahul<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Bldg-sim [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Chapin, Alex N via Bldg-sim<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 23, 2019 4:30 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jim Dirkes <Jim@fsmgmt.co>; bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org; Omer Moltay <omoltay@mimtarch.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [External] Re: [Bldg-sim] Heated Only Residential Zones in 90.1 Appendix G<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">To follow up on this, I have some input.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I’m assuming you are using ASHRAE 90.1-2010, in which case, you would use System #1 or #2 with cooling in the Baseline model and the Proposed system as designed
with the System #1 or #2 cooling system included in the Proposed model. This assumes that the residential spaces are considered “conditioned” as defined in section 3.2 of ASHRAE 90.1-2010 (using Table 3.1 the heating output of the Proposed system would need
to be greater than or equal to the value listed for the climate zone). Then the cooling setpoint can be pretty much what you want as long as it’s the same in both the Baseline and Proposed. This means that even though cooling is required to be included in
the models, it is not likely to be used very often between the cold climate and having the ability to set a high cooling setpoint.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">If the spaces are not considered “conditioned” and are instead “semiheated” then you don’t need to include cooling in either model, but the Baseline Case system
would be the same as the Proposed Case other than heating and motor efficiency improvements.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Jim Dirkes <<a href="mailto:Jim@fsmgmt.co">Jim@fsmgmt.co</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 22, 2019 11:43 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a>; Omer Moltay <<a href="mailto:omoltay@mimtarch.com">omoltay@mimtarch.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Heated Only Residential Zones in 90.1 Appendix G<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Mr. Moltay,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Hoping to get a discussion started.....<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">I agree that Systems 9 & 10 are inappropriate. I suspect that there is a natural ventilation cooling scheme, since it's unlikely that a multi-family building will have "nothing"
for cooling.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">If that's true, you
<u>do</u> have a cooling system, it's just not a mechanical system. The Baseline system would then be System #1 or #2 and your challenge for the Proposed system will be to demonstrate that it maintains proper control of temperatures and ventilation.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">ps, You do not need to maintain typical temperature setpoints for, say an enclosed shopping center. If the owner agrees that 30C is acceptable as a cooling setpoint, then model
that. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div id="Signature">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#212121">James V Dirkes II, PE, BEMP, BCxP<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#212121">Team Lead - Building Performance<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#212121;background:white">616 450 8653</span><span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#212121">Foresight Management<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><u><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:blue;background:white"><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__fsmgmt.co_&d=DwMF-g&c=xB5UQg5qXm2axe_t44neldV-XNditz6D2ZXZLA0vHlE&r=2OnNuBts_YTwPT1vz2CwdyHPVWPE4RSva_gcZEYxsbo&m=utkiHIw5y6qaCUFAUqb0OT3JCJcmpa3TbRCh3BBTqhI&s=FRoWwemSisCPYMsNXa_2t8v7Rvv6u2LMfBW17RCRj90&e=" target="_blank"><span style="color:#954F72">https://fsmgmt.co/</span></a></span></u><span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#212121"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#212121">Coffee Conversation:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style="margin-bottom:6.0pt;background:white;text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#333333;background:white">If “freedom” is ability to do whatever we want, whenever we want and with whomever… that’s lawlessness
or anarchy. Try that with traffic…. then think about what might happen if you try it with your life.</span><span style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center">
<hr size="2" width="98%" align="center">
</div>
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> Bldg-sim <<a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>>
on behalf of Omer Moltay via Bldg-sim <<a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 22, 2019 6:57 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a> <<a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Bldg-sim] Heated Only Residential Zones in 90.1 Appendix G</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p>Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>This has been bogging us for a while, as we cannot figure out how to interpret the various issues in ASHRAE 90.1.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>If in a multifamily building the residential units are only heated but not cooled in the actual design (climate is North Europe), how does the baseline get modeled? I suppose Systems #9 and #10 (Heating Only) would be out of the question as these are intended
for ancillary spaces. So it would have to be System #1 or #2, but with cooling as well?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>More importantly, would the Proposed residential units be modeled with additional cooling using identical systems as in Baseline?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Thank you in advance,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Ömer Moltay, LEED AP BD+C, ASHRAE BEMP, ASHRAE CPMP<br>
Mimta EcoYapi, LEED Proven Provider<br>
Hekimsuyu Cad. 559. Sk.<br>
No:39 34255 Kucukkoy Istanbul Turkey<br>
Tel: 90-212-617-2296<br>
Fax: 90-212-617-2297<br>
Mobile: 90-533-957-1394<br>
<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.eco-2Dyapi.com&d=DwMF-g&c=xB5UQg5qXm2axe_t44neldV-XNditz6D2ZXZLA0vHlE&r=2OnNuBts_YTwPT1vz2CwdyHPVWPE4RSva_gcZEYxsbo&m=utkiHIw5y6qaCUFAUqb0OT3JCJcmpa3TbRCh3BBTqhI&s=5Vtxyen1St5k7vJgLhnucT3lXrnDUvCWROZuVh4yRX4&e=">www.eco-yapi.com</a><br>
<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.buildingenergymodels.com_&d=DwMF-g&c=xB5UQg5qXm2axe_t44neldV-XNditz6D2ZXZLA0vHlE&r=2OnNuBts_YTwPT1vz2CwdyHPVWPE4RSva_gcZEYxsbo&m=utkiHIw5y6qaCUFAUqb0OT3JCJcmpa3TbRCh3BBTqhI&s=Skc08-uHjDkIm8vMgpIyd2Cqtl3jzibx4LdZywwZW4Q&e=">www.buildingenergymodels.com</a>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><img border="0" width="300" height="120" id="_x0000_i1026" src="cid:image001.png@01D5412E.8D082540"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>