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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-CA link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Hi Chris,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Thanks for your response. It would make sense if the Reference Building were also a WLHP but based on AHRI definitions I think a WHLP is pretty clearly not:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>a.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>an “<a href="http://www.ahrinet.org/Certification/AHRI-Certification-Programs/Unitary-Air-Conditioner-Equipment">air-cooled unitary</a>” product,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>b.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>a <a href="http://www.ahrinet.org/Certification/AHRI-Certification-Programs/Packaged-Terminal-Air-Conditioners">packaged terminal air conditioner</a> or <a href="http://www.ahrinet.org/Certification/AHRI-Certification-Programs/Packaged-Terminal-Heat-Pumps">heat pump</a>, or<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>c.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>a fan coil.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>A WLHP is water-cooled unitary product.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>If they simply said “unitary” or “air-cooled or water-cooled unitary” then it would makes sense to me that you model an identical system but they specifically state “air-cooled unitary”.<br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Aaron<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='mso-element:frame;mso-element-wrap:around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:column;mso-element-top:.05pt;mso-height-rule:exactly'><table cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 hspace=0 vspace=0 align=left><tr><td valign=top align=left style='padding-top:0cm;padding-right:0cm;padding-bottom:0cm;padding-left:0cm'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-element:frame;mso-element-wrap:around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:column;mso-element-top:.05pt;mso-height-rule:exactly'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Aaron Smith,</span></b><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:navy'> </span></b><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:gray'>P.Eng<o:p></o:p></span></i></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-element:frame;mso-element-wrap:around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:column;mso-element-top:.05pt;mso-height-rule:exactly'><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:gray'>Principal, Mechanical Engineer</span></i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-element:frame;mso-element-wrap:around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:column;mso-element-top:.05pt;mso-height-rule:exactly'><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:gray'>LEED® AP BD+C, BEMP, BEAP, CGD</span></i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-element:frame;mso-element-wrap:around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:column;mso-element-top:.05pt;mso-height-rule:exactly'><i><span style='font-size:1.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:gray'><o:p> </o:p></span></i></p></td></tr></table></div><p class=MsoNormal><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:gray'>M&R Engineering Ltd.</span></i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> Chris Hadlock [mailto:cjhadlock@gmail.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> February-18-19 11:27 AM<br><b>To:</b> Aaron Smith <asmith@mreng.ca><br><b>Cc:</b> bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] NECB - MURB Reference Heating Type<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Hi Aaron,<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>The way I would interpret it is the Reference system will be identical to your Proposed system (i.e. WLHP connected to fossil fuel boiler). If you had a air-source, water-source (i.e. river, lake) or ground-source, then you would have to worry about auxiliary heating (per Section 8.4.4.13.2). The "through-the-wall" system only applies in the otherwise case (i.e. when your system is not one of the ones listed). <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>This is my interpretation - I'd be interested to hear others.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Chris<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Sun, Feb 17, 2019 at 10:10 PM Aaron Smith via Bldg-sim <<a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Hello,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I’ve got a question about the NECB Reference Building heating system type for Multi-Unit Residential Buildings. Specifically what should it be when you have water-loop heat pumps connected to a fossil fuel boiler?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Table 8.4.4.7.-A of the 2015 NECB states that Reference Building HVAC systems for Multi-Unit Residential areas are:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>“Where the proposed building or space is heated as well as being cooled with an air-cooled unitary, packaged terminal or room air conditioner (or heat pumps), or fan coils, the reference building or space's HVAC system shall be modeled as being identical to that of the proposed building or space; otherwise, the reference building or space shall use through-the-wall systems.”<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I’d consider water-loop heat pumps to be in the “through-the-wall systems” category so the cooling would be air-cooled DX. It doesn’t describe the heating source for “through-the-wall systems” but 8.4.4.9.4 says that the energy type of the reference building’s heating system shall be identical to the energy type of the proposed building’s heating system. The code considers heat pump to be an energy type so I think it should be an air-source heat pump. I’m just not sure about the auxiliary heat – electric resistance or hot water?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I tried running this in CAN-QUEST but got some errors. When I run a 4-storey office building with WLHP, the reference building is coming out as air-source heat pump with electric resistance heat so I’m leaning toward using that. I can see there being an argument for hot water auxiliary heat though based on the proposed building having a fuel-fired boiler (to avoid fuel switching).<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Aaron<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=left><tr><td valign=top style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:1.8pt;mso-element-wrap:around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:column;mso-height-rule:exactly'><b> Aaron Smith,<span style='color:navy'> </span></b><i><span style='color:gray'>P.Eng</span></i><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:1.8pt;mso-element-wrap:around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:column;mso-height-rule:exactly'><i><span style='color:gray'> Principal, Mechanical Engineer</span></i><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:1.8pt;mso-element-wrap:around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:column;mso-height-rule:exactly'><span style='font-size:1.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:gray'> </span><span style='color:gray'>LEED® AP BD+C, BEMP, BEAP, CGD</span></i><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><img border=0 width=170 height=35 id="gmail-m_-4288620778952704193Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.jpg@01D4C782.1D4ABC20" alt="cid:image004.jpg@01D045E5.C57CEB70"> <img border=0 width=50 height=33 id="gmail-m_-4288620778952704193Picture_x0020_2" src="cid:image003.jpg@01D4C782.1D4ABC20" alt="webCertified_logo_colorRGB72DPI"><o:p></o:p></p><div><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=left><tr><td valign=top style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:1.8pt;mso-element-wrap:around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:column;mso-height-rule:exactly'><span lang=FR style='color:gray'> t: (902) 422-7393</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:1.8pt;mso-element-wrap:around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:column;mso-height-rule:exactly'><span lang=FR style='color:gray'> f: (902) 423-4945</span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=FR style='color:gray'> e:</span><span lang=FR style='color:navy'> </span><span style='color:navy'><a href="mailto:asmith@mreng.ca" target="_blank" title="blocked::mailto:asmith@mreng.ca"><span lang=FR>asmith@mreng.ca</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span style='color:#833C0B'> </span></i><span style='color:navy'><a href="http://www.mreng.ca/" target="_blank">www.mreng.ca</a> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=left><tr><td valign=top style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:1.8pt;mso-element-wrap:around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:column;mso-height-rule:exactly'><span style='font-size:6.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#777777'>The electronic message contained herein is private and confidential, intended only for the recipient(s) specified. 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