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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I think Javed’s situation is most easily explained by mapping out some of our industry’s terminology, as I can see the discussion going in many directions as we reply to each
other – If there’s one thing I’ve found consistent between great engineers, it’s probably *not* consistency of terminology (much less, between languages). With that, I’m certain some regions and individuals will disagree with parts of the following mapping,
but hopefully this will help guide the majority: <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo4"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">What cooling medium is piped between the chiller and condenser equipment?<o:p></o:p></span>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="circle">
<li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo4"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Refrigerant
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings">à</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> “Air-cooled chiller” (in AHRI 550/590 & 90.1 terms)<o:p></o:p></span>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="square">
<li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l1 level3 lfo4"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">In the case of air-cooled chillers, the condenser is simply referred to as the condenser.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l1 level3 lfo4"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I have not personally run into commercial/spec-grade refrigerant-circulating condensers that pre-cool the air with sprayers/misting.
I’m aware they exist, but I’m not familiar with how to distinguish this feature… I guess I would call it “evaporative cooling add-on” or “evaporative preconditioning”
<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l1 level3 lfo4"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">This is a 3<sup>rd</sup> party solution a colleague of mine investigated once, but didn’t make it into the project scope:
<a href="http://www.evaporcool.com/">http://www.evaporcool.com/</a><o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
</li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo4"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Water
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings">à</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> “Water-cooled chiller” (in AHRI 550/590 & 90.1 terms)
<o:p></o:p></span>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="square">
<li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l1 level3 lfo4"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">This includes water with add-mixtures, like glycol<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l1 level3 lfo4"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Is the condenser water loop closed, or exposed to air?<o:p></o:p></span>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l1 level4 lfo4"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Open Loop
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings">à</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> “Cooling Tower”<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l1 level4 lfo4"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Closed Loop
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings">à</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> “Fluid cooler”<o:p></o:p></span>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="circle">
<li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l1 level5 lfo4"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Terminology usage grows particularly loose here between different manufacturers and specifiers
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings">à</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Best to grab a datasheet to confirm what exactly you’re dealing with<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l1 level5 lfo4"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Is water sprayed on the fluid cooler’s fins to induce evaporative cooling?<o:p></o:p></span>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="square">
<li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l1 level6 lfo4"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">No
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings">à</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> “Dry cooler” or “Radiator”<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l1 level6 lfo4"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Yes
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings">à</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> “Evaporative Fluid Cooler” or “Indirect Evaporative Cooler” or “Closed Loop Cooling Tower”
<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
</li></ul>
</li></ul>
</li></ul>
</li></ul>
</li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">With that mapping, I’m inclined to agree that Javed is dealing with a combination of “Dry coolers” and “Evaporative Fluid Coolers,” both of which I’d expect to be paired with
water-cooled chillers. The image below leads me to feel it’s hydronic/water fluid cooling in lieu of refrigerant because:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<ol style="margin-top:0in" start="1" type="a">
<li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo5"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">The headers on the end (copper color) appear to be equally sized pipes – if it were refrigerant I’d expect one to be
narrower<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo5"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I don’t see the condensers anywhere… it’s possible they could be remote and I’m wrong however.
<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I’d still advise Javed to seek out some literature / cutsheets to be certain of what the cooling medium is. I can’t be 100% certain only looking at the picture.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Hope this helps someone!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">~Nick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#3A7A46"><img border="0" width="726" height="9" style="width:7.5625in;height:.0937in" id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image003.png@01D3B5F8.4E0F2A90"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#3A7A46">Nick Caton, P.E., BEMP</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#3A7A46"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469"> Senior Energy Engineer</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469"> Regional Energy Engineering Manager<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469"> Energy and Sustainability Services</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469"> Schneider Electric</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#57B069">D </span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469">913.564.6361
</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#57B069">M </span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469">785.410.3317
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</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#57B069">E </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><a href="mailto:nicholas.caton@schneider-electric.com"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469">nicholas.caton@schneider-electric.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 10:47 PM, Javed Iqbal via Bldg-sim <<a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Hello,</span><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#073763"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black;background:white"> I would appreciate your expert advice on selecting 90.1-2010 Baseline system to show minimum efficiency compliance as given under
<b><u>Table 6.8.1C</u></b>. One of the proposed project i am working on has two<u> <span class="m5310775448804871148m2465159858129261468m-230563553682319597gmail-il">Chillers</span></u></span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<u><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">One with Std. Dry Coolers </span></u><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3;background:white">
<span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Second chiller has special arrangement where the surrounding air of cooling tower being cooled (dry bulb) by some sort of misting to increase the dry cooler effectiveness during extreme outdoor condition
(CZ5A) ~ 80% lower water consumption compared to typical water cooled cooling tower. In this hybrid cooling tower, evaporation effect is happening but not like std. water cooled cooling tower. </span><o:p></o:p></li></ol>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> To show minimum efficiency compliance,
<u>what condenser type do i need to choose</u>; Air or Water Cooled in both the Cooling tower type; Std Dry cooler and Hybrid Dry cooler (see image below)? Also find an attachment to have more info<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#073763"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">on the product.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><img border="0" width="562" height="257" style="width:5.8541in;height:2.677in" id="_x0000_i1026" src="cid:image005.png@01D3B5F8.4E0F2A90"><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Thank you so much.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span class="hoenzb"><span style="color:#888888">--
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#888888;background:white">Javed Iqbal, LEED AP, CEA</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#888888;background:#3333FF"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#888888;background:white">Sr. Energy Analyst </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#888888;background:#3333FF"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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