<div dir="ltr">One should also point out that a corridor is a transient space and is therefore not critical.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><p>Peter Simmonds, Ph.D., FASHRAE, FIBPSA, FFTI</p>
<p>Mobile USA: +1-310-383-9911</p>
<p>Mobile HKG: +852-9227-1640</p>
<p>Mobile UK: +44 7470461689</p><p><a href="http://www.petersimmonds.com" target="_blank">www.petersimmonds.com</a></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 8:29 AM, Bishop, Bill via Bldg-sim <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Christopher,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I agree with Jim.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I typically model all
<i>conditioned spaces</i> including <i>semiheated </i>spaces with heating and cooling thermostat schedules, except for heating-only zones that meet the criteria for Systems 9/10 in Appendix G, for which I leave the cooling thermostat schedule undefined. I may
enter relaxed design conditions for zones that aren’t intended to have tight temperature control (using DESIGN-COOL-T and DESIGN-HEAT-T in DOE-2/eQUEST), and use correspondingly relaxed thermostat schedules for those zones. If there are unmet hours in the
proposed design that I can’t address by relaxing the thermostat schedules even further, than I might leave the heating and/or cooling thermostat schedules undefined to represent floating with no thermostat control (which results in no reported unmet loads
to have to explain). I keep all design conditions and thermostat schedules identical in the baseline as required by Appendix G.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">~Bill<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Medium",sans-serif;color:black">William Bishop, PE, BEMP, BEAP, CEM, LEED AP
</span></b><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Medium",sans-serif;color:#006600">|</span></b><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Medium",sans-serif;color:black"> Pathfinder Engineers & Architects LLP<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
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Fee and Dividend - simple, effective, and market-based.</span><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Bldg-sim [mailto:<a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim-bounces@<wbr>lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jones, Christopher via Bldg-sim<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 23, 2018 11:21 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jim Dirkes <<a href="mailto:jim@buildingperformanceteam.com" target="_blank">jim@buildingperformanceteam.<wbr>com</a>></span></p><div><div class="h5"><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Modeling zones that are conditioned but not controlled<u></u><u></u></div></div><p></p>
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</div><div><div class="h5">
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Thanks Jim,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Your suggested approaches are in line with how I have been handing the issue.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:6.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Christopher R. Jones</span></b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">,
P.Eng.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Technical Specialist<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Sustainability & Energy<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><img border="0" width="78" height="37" id="m_7196463276615113296Picture_x0020_15" src="cid:image009.png@01D3AC99.6D906630"></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">T +1 416-644-0252<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">2300 Yonge Street, Suite 2300<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Toronto, ON M4P 1E4 Canada<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><a href="http://wsp.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:#0563c1">wsp.com</span></a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:blue"><u></u><span style="text-decoration:none"> </span><u></u></span></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#7f7f7f"><u></u> <u></u></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#6ea900">Please consider the environment before printing...<u></u><u></u></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Jim Dirkes [<a href="mailto:jim@buildingperformanceteam.com" target="_blank">mailto:jim@<wbr>buildingperformanceteam.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 23, 2018 11:18 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jones, Christopher <<a href="mailto:Christopher.r.Jones@wsp.com" target="_blank">Christopher.r.Jones@wsp.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Modeling zones that are conditioned but not controlled<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt">My opinion:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt">If there is no thermostat, the design essentially says that a wide temperature variation is acceptable. You might consider arguing that those zones
<u>cannot </u>have unmet load hours because the design does not attempt to control temperature. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt">For your own peace of mind (if your software allows it), you might also report hourly temperatures in the zone to confirm that temps don't go crazy unexpectedly during occupied hours.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 10:47 AM, Jones, Christopher via Bldg-sim <<a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.<wbr>org</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
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<p class="MsoNormal">I am wondering what others do for building zones that are conditioned but have no direct HVAC control. For example, a typical school will have a DOAS with perimeter radiation in
exterior zones. There will be temperature and CO2 DCV in these occupied zones. The corridor will have transfer air and may have a couple of small supply diffusers from the DOAS but there is no thermostat to control the temperature in that corridor.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">If there is no thermostat, there is no setpoint so how does one determine if the corridor has unmet loads? How would one model the corridor zone in the baseline case for Appendix
G?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:6.0pt"> </span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Christopher R. Jones</span></b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">,
P.Eng.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Technical Specialist</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Sustainability & Energy</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><img border="0" width="78" height="37" id="m_7196463276615113296m_-7824932038928028609Picture_x0020_15" src="cid:image009.png@01D3AC99.6D906630"><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">T
<a href="tel:(416)%20644-0252" target="_blank">+1 416-644-0252</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">2300 Yonge Street, Suite 2300</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Toronto, ON M4P 1E4 Canada</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><a href="http://wsp.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:#0563c1">wsp.com</span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:blue"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<b><span style="color:#7f7f7f"> </span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
<i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#6ea900">Please consider the environment before printing...</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">James V Dirkes II, CEO / President<br>
The Building Performance Team Inc.<br>
1631 Acacia Dr, Grand Rapids, MI 49504<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">(alphabet soup of efforts for greater understanding: PE, BEMP, BCxP, LEED AP)<br>
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Direct / Mobile: 616.450.8653<br>
<a href="mailto:jim@buildingperformanceteam.com" target="_blank">jim@buildingperformanceteam.<wbr>com</a><br>
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<a href="http://buildingperformanceteam.com" target="_blank">Website </a>l <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/pub/jim-dirkes/7/444/413" target="_blank">LinkedIn</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:6.0pt;text-autospace:none"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Coffee conversation:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:6.0pt;text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#333333">The first idea is the worst, but it is the most important because it starts discussion and becomes the building block for other
ideas.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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