<html>
<body>
<font size=3>Actually, EnergyPlus (and the epw format) uses coded flags
in the 9 digit "Present Weather Codes" to determine and
set Rain/Snow. Now that some stations include precipitation (albeit
liquid) EnergyPlus sets the rain flag when there is adequate
precipitation currently.<br><br>
I believe the updated TMY3 format went away from the 9 digit present
weather codes, so EnergyPlus would rely on the "preciitation"
field in the epw file.<br><br>
It would not be impossible to bring those back to the CWEC data; however,
probably not as individual flags.<br><br>
Linda<br><br>
At 04:44 PM 1/8/2018, Joe Huang via Bldg-sim wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">Content-Type:
multipart/alternative;<br>
boundary="------------E16429D68ABA1BA04C74DF5C"<br>
Content-Language: en-US<br><br>
The rain and snow flags are still available in the raw weather station
data, but haven't been included in the processed weather files since the
1990's because everyone in this hemisphere at least have adopted
the TMY2/TMY3 formats, in content if not the literal file format,
developed by NREL, which does not include these two flags. I was also
under the impression that none of the simulation programs, such as DOE-2,
do not use these two flags anyway. If these flags are of use, it
would make sense to include them, which would not require a change in the
DOE-2 *.BINM format, but would require a change to the EnergyPlus *.epw
format.<br><br>
Joe<br>
<br>
</font><pre>Joe Huang
White Box Technologies, Inc.
346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 205A
Moraga CA 94556
<a href="mailto:yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com">
yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com</a>
<a href="http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com/" eudora="autourl">
http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com</a> for simulation-ready weather
data
(o) (925)388-0265
(c) (510)928-2683
"building energy simulations at your fingertips"
</pre><font face="Courier New, Courier" size=3></font>On 1/8/2018 12:15
PM, 'Jones, Christopher'
<a href="mailto:christopher.r.jones@wsp.com">
christopher.r.jones@wsp.com</a> [EnergyPlus_Support] wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite=""> <br><br>
I have a question what happened to the rain and snow flags that were in
the old CWEC file but are missing in the latest versions. Many snow
melting systems have a snow/rain sensor in the slab used to trigger the
system on. <br><br>
<br><br>
<b> <br>
</b><br>
<b>Christopher R. Jones</b>, P.Eng.<br><br>
Technical Specialist<br><br>
Sustainability & Energy<br><br>
<br><br>
<img src="cid:7.1.0.9.2.20180109052651.076d5008@fortlawrie.com.4" width=78 height=37 alt="[]">
<br><br>
T +1 416-644-0252<br><br>
<br><br>
2300 Yonge Street, Suite 2300<br><br>
Toronto, ON M4P 1E4 Canada<br><br>
<a href="wsp.htm">wsp.com</a><br><br>
<u> <br>
</u><br>
<b> <br>
</b><br>
<i>Please consider the environment before printing...<br>
</i><br>
<br><br>
<br><br>
<b>From:</b> Equest-users
[<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">
mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of
</b>Joe Huang via Equest-users<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 02, 2018 10:15 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nicholas Caton
<a href="mailto:Nicholas.Caton@schneider-electric.com">
<Nicholas.Caton@schneider-electric.com></a>; BLDG-SIM
<a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">
<bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org></a>; EnergyPlus_Support
<a href="mailto:EnergyPlus_Support@yahoogroups.com">
<EnergyPlus_Support@yahoogroups.com></a>;
<a href="mailto:equest-users@onebuilding.org">
equest-users@onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Jim Dirkes
<a href="mailto:jim@buildingperformanceteam.com">
<jim@buildingperformanceteam.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] White Box Technologies brings
simulation weather data to the satellite age<br><br>
<br><br>
Nick,<br><br>
This is an interesting topic that has evolved in an unexpected
way. Now that NREL has mastered the technology of
satellite-derived solar radiation, they have regarded weather station
data as an impediment, since there's no way to get such measured data to
match the 5-kilometer grid of the satellite-derived solar.
Therefore, they have abandoned the weather station data (which was was
used in all the TMYs to date) and gone instead to Reanalysis Data from
NOAA's MERRA, which is running a climate forecasting model in
retrospective mode. I don't have time now to discuss reanalysis, except
to say that from what I've seen the results are decidedly
"iffy". Almost two years ago, I managed to get a Work
Statement through ASHRAE for someone to take a good look at
reanalysis data.<br><br>
So, what does this mean for your question? NREL's National Solar
Radiation Data Base (NSRDB) can now get you the hourly time series or a
TMY for more than a million grid points over the US, all with
satellite-derived solar radiation but MERRA results for the other
climate parameters. I've told NREL several years ago that for the
building simulation industry it would be much better to merge the
satellite-derived solar with actual station data that give good accurate
coverage of urban areas where buildings are located. NREL's response was
that they'd be happy to do this, but someone has to pay them for the
work. <br><br>
In response to your hypothesis below, I think you're being too
disparaging of the previous modeling efforts while raising too high your
expectations of satellite solar. It's not that the previous models
failed to account for local climate conditions, but that they lacked good
data to drive them. For example, all models included terms for
cloud cover and clearness, or for the more detailed physical models
arcane parameters like aerosol optical depth, preciptable moisture,
etc., but how available are the input data and how reliable are
they? The advantages of satellite-derived solar are that they
provide a comprehensive and objective view of the cloud conditions, which
combined with satellite measurements of the atmospheric conditions
and improved modeling, results in accuracies that previous
modeling efforts can not attain. As far as discerning localized
effects of smog and dust in urban areas, that would still depend on
whether there's sufficient monitoring at that spatial and time scale to
detect the differences. What I mean is that it's one thing to
observe that in general urban locations have more smog and particulates
than rural locations, but it's something else to quantify the resultant
differences in solar radiation over time and distance.<br><br>
I'd like to take the opportunity here to step back and comment on the
status of weather data for the building energy community, My interactions
with NREL has brought the realization that we have been piggy-backing on
the efforts of others outside our community for our weather data.
I don't intend to pick on the NREL Solar Program, several of whom I
consider friends and colleagues, but their target client is the solar
power industry. Since solar power arrays can be installed
anywhere, preferably in rural uninhabited locations, it makes sense to go
to satellite-derived solar. It's also clear that to serve that
industry, NREL would focus its efforts on getting the best solar values,
while all the other climatic parameters, like temperature, humidity, wind
speed, etc., are secondary, which may be why getting them from MERRA is a
satisfactory choice. The focus on solar is also evident in the
weighting used by NREL to develop the TMYs, with 50% weight placed on the
2 solar and 50% on the remaining 8 non-solar parameters. <br><br>
For the building energy community, or priorities are somewhat different.
Since 99% of buildings are located in urban locations, we should focus
much more on climate in urban areas. Luckily, that's also where
the great majority of existing weather are located, which is why I'm
resistant to throwing out measured weather data and replacing them with
synthetic data, no matter how much they've been "seeded" with
real data. As for the weighting of climate parameters in selecting the
typical months, why not use building energy simulations and weight
them by the distribution of heating and cooling loads? <br><br>
Joe<br><br>
<pre>Joe Huang</pre><font face="Courier New, Courier" size=3></font><br>
<pre>White Box Technologies,
Inc.</pre><font face="Courier New, Courier" size=3></font><br>
<pre>346 Rheem Blvd., Suite
205A</pre><font face="Courier New, Courier" size=3></font><br>
<pre>Moraga CA
94556</pre><font face="Courier New, Courier" size=3></font><br>
<pre><a href="mailto:yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com">
yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com</a></pre>
<font face="Courier New, Courier" size=3></font><br>
<pre><a href="http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com/" eudora="autourl">
http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com</a> for simulation-ready weather
data</pre><font face="Courier New, Courier" size=3></font><br>
<pre>(o)
(925)388-0265</pre><font face="Courier New, Courier" size=3></font><br>
<pre>(c)
(510)928-2683</pre><font face="Courier New, Courier" size=3></font><br>
<pre>"building energy simulations at your
fingertips"</pre><font face="Courier New, Courier" size=3></font><br>
On 1/2/2018 9:30 AM, Nicholas Caton wrote:<br>
<dl><br>
<dd>Hi Joe,<br><br>
<dd> <br><br>
<dd>From your perspective, are NREL or any other government/professional
bodies making moves/indications to update/refresh the current TMY3 sets
to utilize satellite-derived solar radiation? Seems like a
no-brainer for our industry, but is there a counter-argument? It
seems likely, but has there been rigorous comparisons of
satellite-derived solar radiation against measured values and/or our
“present-day” solar models used to derive solar radiation information
for building energy simulation?<br><br>
<dd> <br><br>
<dd>Also, I’m trying to understand and correctly characterize the
impact of this development in simple terms my brain can follow. Is
it fair to say: <br><br>
<dd> <br><br>
<dd>The solar models used in developing weather files for building energy
simulations to-date in our industry (including all/most industry-standard
TMY weather sets), because they have been using solar radiation derived
from (evolving) solar models, have not</u> accounted for the likes of
local climate cloud cover / smog / dust? Seattle (~47°N) has
perhaps been seeing as much sunlight through the winter as Paris
(~48°N)?<br><br>
<dd> <br><br>
<dd>Does satellite-derived solar radiation address some or all of these
local climate issues (cloud cover, smog, dust) affecting direct/indirect
solar radiation? <br><br>
<dd> <br><br>
<dd>Thanks sincerely for all your teaching Joe,<br><br>
<dd> <br><br>
<dd>~Nick<br><br>
<dd> <br><br>
<dd>
<img src="cid:7.1.0.9.2.20180109052651.076d5008@fortlawrie.com.5" width=726 height=9 alt="[]">
<br><br>
<dd>Nick Caton, P.E., BEMP<br>
</b><br>
<dd> Senior Energy Engineer<br>
<dd> Regional Energy Engineering Manager<br><br>
<dd> Energy and Sustainability Services<br>
<dd> Schneider Electric<br><br>
<dd>D 913.564.6361 <br>
<dd>M 785.410.3317 <br>
<dd>F 913.564.6380<br>
<dd>E
<a href="mailto:nicholas.caton@schneider-electric.com">
nicholas.caton@schneider-electric.com</a><br><br>
<div align="right">
<dd>15200 Santa Fe Trail Drive<br>
<dd>Suite 204<br>
<dd>Lenexa, KS 66219<br>
<dd>United States<br>
</div>
<br>
<dd>
<img src="cid:7.1.0.9.2.20180109052651.076d5008@fortlawrie.com.6" width=722 height=49 alt="[]">
<br><br>
<dd> <br><br>
<dd> <br><br>
<dd>From:</b> Equest-users
[<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">
mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] On Behalf Of
</b>Joe Huang via Equest-users<br>
<dd>Sent:</b> Thursday, December 14, 2017 8:13 PM<br>
<dd>To:</b> BLDG-SIM
<a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">
<bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org></a>; EnergyPlus_Support
<a href="mailto:EnergyPlus_Support@yahoogroups.com">
<EnergyPlus_Support@yahoogroups.com></a>;
<a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">
equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<dd>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] White Box Technologies brings simulation
weather data to the satellite age<br><br>
<dd> <br><br>
<dd>It is with joy and some trepidation to report that White Box
Technologies (WBT) is updating all its historical weather files with
satellite-derived solar radiation. Joy because this overcomes what has
been the most significant question mark with weather files; trepidation
because of the amount of work needed to carry out and maintain this
effort. To show that this is more than marketing hype, I need to give a
rather long explanation about this development.<br><br>
<dd>The bane of weather data over the past three decades has been the
solar radiation (global horizontal and direct normal) which are not
measured parameters, but derived using various solar and sky models. All
the familiar "typical year" sets, i.e., TMY, WYEC, IWEC, etc.,
let alone the historical weather files, have modeled solar radiation.
Although a lot of<br>
<dd>work has gone into such models (see M. Iqbal,"An Introduction to
Solar Radiation", Academic Press, 1983), there remain an almost
intractible problem of the lack of good measured solar to tune any of
these models. For example, in the ASHRAE IWEC2 weather files, my team was
able to find one or two years' measured data for less than 50
locations,<br>
<dd>from which were derived 28 sets of regression coefficients then used
for all 3,012 IWEC2 locations.<br>
<br>
<dd>For the past decade and a half, researchers around the world have
been working to derive solar radiation from weather satellite imagery,
driven largely by the needs of the solar power industry for the siting of
solar power plants and getting "bankable" solar estimates for
their arrays. Our little building energy simulation sector can of course
benefit by hanging on the coattails of the solar power industry, but the
downside has been to be totally priced out, since the commercial cost for
one year's solar data for one location (grid cell) typically runs around
$1,000.<br><br>
<dd>A welcome development over the last five years is that various
government offices or affiliated consortia are now beginning to also
providing access to satellite-derived solar radiation at minimal or more
acceptable costs under various conditions. Over the past three years, WBT
has obtained access to such data and permission for its use in WBT
weather files.<br>
<dd>WBT is now either replacing the solar radiation on its historical
weather files, or using satellite-derived radiation to develop custom
solar coefficients for each location to extend the satellite-derived
solar to time periods outside the available time window. With the
exception of polar locations above or below 60/66 degrees, island nations
in the Pacific and Indian Ocean, and a few unfortunate "blind
spots", the entire land mass is being covered with at least 10 years
up to 18 years of hourly solar records.<br><br>
<dd>Starting in 2018, WBT historical weather files in the following areas
will all have satellite-derived solar radiation for the following time
periods: Europe, Africa, South America east of 66 West, i.e., Brazil and
Uruguay (2004 to date), Australia (1999 to date), and East Asia (2007 to
date, access pending). WBT historical weather files in the following
areas will have satellite-derived solar radiation for the indicated time
periods - North America and Central/South American down to 20 South
(1998-2015), South Asia (2000-2014), with modeled solar radiation from
2016 on that has been individually tuned to the past satellite-derived
solar.<br><br>
<dd>Another benefit to the satellite-derived solar is to increases the
number of available weather stations, which in many places has been
limited by the lack of cloud cover data needed to model the solar
radiation. For reasons that are not immediately identifiable,
several English-speaking Commonwealth countries has seen a marked drop in
the number of available stations due to the decreases in the reporting of
cloud cover (see plot, ZAF = South Africa). For example, the number of
stations in the UK has dropped by almost 2/3s between 2001 and 2017 (174
to 64), but with satellite-derived solar, it will go back up to over 180,
while in Australia and South Africa the comparable numbers are from 175
to well over 500, and from 37 to over 100, respectively.<br>
<dd>
<img src="cid:7.1.0.9.2.20180109052651.076d5008@fortlawrie.com.7" width=625 height=337 alt="[]">
<br>
<dd>If interested, customers who have purchased a historical weather
files from WBT over the past five years can get an updated weather file
at no cost. Lastly, although it will take at least a month to update all
10,000 2017 files, it's very quick to do for any specific location or
even 50 or so locations. Therefore, if you have an urgent request please
e-mail me and I will put that at the beginning of the queue for that
day.<br><br>
<dd><pre>-- </pre><font face="Courier New, Courier" size=3></font><br>
<dd><pre>Joe
Huang</pre><font face="Courier New, Courier" size=3></font><br>
<dd><pre>White Box Technologies,
Inc.</pre><font face="Courier New, Courier" size=3></font><br>
<dd><pre>346 Rheem Blvd., Suite
205A</pre><font face="Courier New, Courier" size=3></font><br>
<dd><pre>Moraga CA
94556</pre><font face="Courier New, Courier" size=3></font><br>
<dd><pre><a href="mailto:yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com">
yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com</a></pre>
<font face="Courier New, Courier" size=3></font><br>
<dd><pre>
<a href="http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com/" eudora="autourl">
http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com</a> for simulation-ready weather
data</pre><font face="Courier New, Courier" size=3></font><br>
<dd><pre>(o)
(925)388-0265</pre><font face="Courier New, Courier" size=3></font><br>
<dd><pre>(c)
(510)928-2683</pre><font face="Courier New, Courier" size=3></font><br>
<dd><pre>"building energy simulations at your
fingertips"</pre><font face="Courier New, Courier" size=3></font><br>
</dl> <br><br>
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