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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">[sorry to those getting this twice, CC’ed the wrong mailing list in reply]</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">My contribution will echo with Justin’s:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Your first and best source of what the load profiles look like in aggregate for a given site is whatever you can come up with from the utilities and any upstream campus submeters
/ logs. Before running down the path of “building up” to what’s seen at the bills and campus meter(s), establish how far you can get looking at this from the “top down.” I would try to constrain a prototype-driven “build up” exercise to only providing a
loose context to what might make up what’s actually being measured in aggregate. With some luck, you might find interval data exists which isn’t otherwise published or shared out by the utility campus metering folks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">If you (or your client) have any purpose-built models developed already to evaluate/calibrate against existing bills, I’d would definitely consider leveraging those before
falling back to from-scratch DOE reference models. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Time/resources spent making a guess “from scratch” might be better invested exploring options to add some logging/metering to get some real insight into what the aggregate
profile really looks like, even if only for a short period.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">~Nick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#3A7A46"><img width="726" height="9" style="width:7.5625in;height:.0937in" id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.png@01D2EA96.464E5B60"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#3A7A46">Nick Caton, P.E., BEMP</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#3A7A46"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469"> Senior Energy Engineer</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469"> Regional Energy Engineering Manager<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469"> Energy and Sustainability Services</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469"> Schneider Electric</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#57B069">D </span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469">913.564.6361
</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#57B069">M </span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469">785.410.3317
</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#57B069">F </span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469">913.564.6380</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#57B069">E </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><a href="mailto:nicholas.caton@schneider-electric.com"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469">nicholas.caton@schneider-electric.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" align="right" style="text-align:right"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469">15200 Santa Fe Trail Drive<br>
Suite 204<br>
Lenexa, KS 66219<br>
United States</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-line-height-alt:4.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#3A7A46"><img border="0" width="722" height="49" style="width:7.5208in;height:.5104in" id="_x0000_i1026" src="cid:image002.png@01D2EA96.464E5B60"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Bldg-sim [<a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Justin Spencer via Bldg-sim<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 21, 2017 10:26 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] 8760 Load Profiles<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I like calibrating to whatever you can get. If you are talking about aggregate loadshapes, like I'm usually working with when consulting with utilities, then calibrating to whole facility data can be quite enlightening. In general, an average
of existing real building loads looks a lot different than the output you might get from the prototypes. After you mess with schedules (keep your calibration loose), then the resulting profiles can be quite a bit better. The primary difference that we see
is that real buildings use a lot more electricity at night and on weekends than their prototypes suggest. Yes, you are guessing which end uses are off, but if you have hourly data across multiple seasons and types of weather, then you should be able to make
some good guesses that would represent improvements on the prototypes. Don't overdo it. You still don't know very much. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 10:58 AM, Jim Dirkes via Bldg-sim <<a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;color:blue">Dear Coles,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;color:blue">Quoting Dru Crawley (who got it elsewhere) "All models are wrong, but some are useful". That applies doubly to instances where you want to match metered data with modeled data.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;color:blue"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;color:blue">As I participate in both the modeling and commissioning arenas, I'm keenly aware of the (literally) hundreds of ways a building can operate differently than imagined by the modeler (or DOE's reference
models). Differences are often major!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;color:blue"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;color:blue">The scenario you describe appears to be what a statistician would describe as "under-constrained" - you probably don't know enough details about actual operation to understand which of several low
RSME calibration solutions are correct. :(<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;color:blue"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;color:blue">At the risk of blathering on too long, I think your project places you on the leading edge of energy practice and research; good luck!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;color:blue"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;color:blue">p.s., there are some nifty software tools which promise effective analysis of buildings with BMS'. Among them are
<a href="https://skyfoundry.com/skyspark/" target="_blank">SkySpark </a>and a few others, with newcomer
<a href="http://www.buildpulse.com/" target="_blank">BuildPulse</a>. Their approach is to apply FDD rule sets and identify operational problems. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;color:blue">Another nifty tool is the (totally) wire-free CT sensors from
<a href="http://www.panpwr.com/" target="_blank">Panoramic Power</a>, which we've used for sub-metering complex facilities.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 10:29 AM, Jennings, Coles via Bldg-sim <<a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Hello all,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I’ve gotten some great responses, both privately and on the public thread. I really appreciate the
feedback from the group. The consensus definitely appears to be to use the DoE prototype buildings to create sample load profiles. For those that are not already aware, I located this database, which includes both commercial and residential 8,760 load profiles,
broken out by end-use:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><a href="http://en.openei.org/datasets/dataset/commercial-and-residential-hourly-load-profiles-for-all-tmy3-locations-in-the-united-states" target="_blank">http://en.openei.org/datasets/dataset/commercial-and-residential-hourly-load-profiles-for-all-tmy3-locations-in-the-united-states</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">The commercial profiles are based on the DoE prototypes and have been run for just about every significant
location in the US. Does anyone else have experience with this database?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">My search continues for a repository of real, metered data to complement the simulation data. Modeling
is always my first tool in the toolkit as well, but the more metered data I see coming back from our clients (which can take a lot of begging to get), the more I realize that some of the “typical” profiles from standard modeling guidelines are a little more
idealized than I used to think.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Thanks to all,</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><br>
<br>
</span><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Coles Jennings</span></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> PE, BEMP, LEED AP BD+C
<br>
Sr. Energy Engineer, Building Sciences Manager </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#BA0C2F">|
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Mason & Hanger
<br>
A Day & Zimmermann Company <br>
<b>D </b><a href="tel:(804)%20521-7045" target="_blank">804.521.7045</a> </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#BA0C2F">|
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</span></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><a href="tel:(804)%20217-8520" target="_blank">804.217.8520</a>
<br>
4880 Sadler Road, Suite 300 </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#BA0C2F">|
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Glen Allen, VA 23060
<br>
<a href="http://www.masonandhanger.com/" target="_blank"><span style="color:#224BF1;text-decoration:none">Mason & Hanger</span></a>
<br>
</span><b><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Adobe Garamond",serif;color:#BA0C2F">We do what we say.®</span></i></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">
<br>
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Dru Crawley [mailto:<a href="mailto:dbcrawley@gmail.com" target="_blank">dbcrawley@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 20, 2017 5:32 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jennings, Coles <<a href="mailto:Coles.Jennings@MasonandHanger.com">Coles.Jennings@MasonandHanger.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] 8760 Load Profiles</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">One option is to use the reference building models used to test development of ASHRAE Standard 90.1 and output 8760 hour end-use data. The models by themselves do not output the
8760 data but it is a minor tweak to allow them to do that. 18 building types available in 16 climate zones. <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.energycodes.gov_development_commercial_prototype-5Fmodels&d=DwMFaQ&c=xB5UQg5qXm2axe_t44neldV-XNditz6D2ZXZLA0vHlE&r=JrIPsTq2z-_669uhqn51VqSZFL7dpX6NqxKBTKpeQZ9m5XksAJHnQhCI_rEcbMFG&m=cqRY1mJf56oxqepBYgWSPa-8S1fLmGwU3qsjkHWFRgQ&s=-18u1FuXkYX77l1jU7blP0wJRKPaaTqoJKDmMVwDwwA&e=" target="_blank">https://www.energycodes.gov/development/commercial/prototype_models</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 11:34 AM, Jennings, Coles via Bldg-sim <<a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Hello all,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">We’re conducting a microgrid study for a campus-style facility and need to be able to aggregate the hourly loads of the campus buildings (various types and sizes) into a single
load profile. I’m reaching out to gauge what the best sources are for typical 8,760 building load profiles (free or purchased). Ideally these would be broken out by end-use category, but that’s not a strict requirement. At a minimum, I’d need the ability to
pull a unique profile based on building use type and climate zone.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Thanks,<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><br>
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</span><b><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Coles Jennings</span></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> PE, BEMP, LEED AP BD+C
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Sr. Energy Engineer, Building Sciences Manager </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#BA0C2F">|
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Mason & Hanger
<br>
A Day & Zimmermann Company <br>
<b>D </b><a href="tel:(804)%20521-7045" target="_blank">804.521.7045</a> </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#BA0C2F">|
</span><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">O
</span></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><a href="tel:(804)%20285-4171" target="_blank">804.285.4171</a>
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#BA0C2F">|
</span><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">F
</span></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><a href="tel:(804)%20217-8520" target="_blank">804.217.8520</a>
<br>
4880 Sadler Road, Suite 300 </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#BA0C2F">|
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Glen Allen, VA 23060
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<a href="http://www.masonandhanger.com/" target="_blank"><span style="color:#224BF1;text-decoration:none">Mason & Hanger</span></a>
<br>
</span><b><i><span style="font-family:"Adobe Garamond",serif;color:#BA0C2F">We do what we say.®</span></i></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">
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<p class="MsoNormal">James V Dirkes II, CEO/President<br>
The Building Performance Team Inc.<br>
1631 Acacia Dr, GR, MI 49504<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">(alphabet soup: PE, BEMP, BCxP, LEED AP)<br>
<br>
Direct / Mobile: <a href="tel:(616)%20450-8653" target="_blank">616.450.8653</a><br>
<a href="mailto:jim@buildingperformanceteam.com" target="_blank">jim@buildingperformanceteam.com</a><br>
<br>
<a href="http://buildingperformanceteam.com" target="_blank">Website </a>l <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/pub/jim-dirkes/7/444/413" target="_blank">LinkedIn</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:6.0pt;text-autospace:none"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Coffee conversation:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:6.0pt;text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MyriadPro-Regular",serif">… the minute one is labeled mean-spirited simply for raising an opposing view, debate is silenced. If we disqualify legitimate discussion,
we compromise our ability to know the truth. We need to cultivate the ability to disagree civilly and not take opposition personally. We must also have the grace to allow our own views to be challenged with evidence and reasoning…
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p style="margin-bottom:6.0pt;text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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