<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#0000ff">We are on the same page.  </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#0000ff"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#0000ff">A friend once said (probably quoting someone else), "Become good, then better, then best. After that, set a new standard for 'best'."</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 9:20 AM, Andrew S. Hoover via Bldg-sim <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="m_-3468618703972235955WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Agree with everything you say below.  Reasonably achievable is probably the best, lol.  Just wanted to emphasize getting reasonably achievable is the goal not just getting done.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Jim Dirkes [mailto:<a href="mailto:jim@buildingperformanceteam.com" target="_blank">jim@<wbr>buildingperformanceteam.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, December 16, 2016 8:47 AM<br><b>To:</b> Andrew S. Hoover <<a href="mailto:andyhoover@thebestconsultant.com" target="_blank">andyhoover@thebestconsultant.<wbr>com</a>><br><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a></span></p><div><div class="h5"><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] LEED project - maximum limit allowed to simplified wall azimuth.<u></u><u></u></div></div><p></p><div><div class="h5"><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:blue">Andrew,<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:blue">Not trying to be difficult here, but it might be better to substitute "reasonable" or "representative" for "accurate". From a certain perspective none of our energy models are accurate. Especially for Appendix G comparisons of new building designs, there are so many variables which are not known with high confidence!<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:blue"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:blue">What's the infiltration rate - really?<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:blue">What is the occupancy or lighting or plug load diversity - really?<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:blue">What is the part load performance - as installed?<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:blue">etc.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:blue"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:blue">I'm always glad to learn of research which quantifies the impact of topics about which I have a gut check, but don't have time to actually investigate.  The paper Nick cited would be one of them. Those ASHRAE people are also pretty good at doing their homework when writing standards such as 90.1, too.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:blue"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:blue">I ALWAYS attempt to input the best available information, using a good understanding of building science, physics and heat transfer. Nonetheless, I also realize that there are dozens of variables that will not match with actual operation.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:blue"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:blue">p.s., I used 16 facets for my last round tower just to be more confident :)<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:blue"><img width="530" height="562" style="width:5.525in;height:5.8583in" id="m_-3468618703972235955_x0000_i1025" src="cid:image001.jpg@01D2577D.9E01C3D0" alt="Inline image 2"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:blue"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:blue"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 6:12 AM, Andrew S. Hoover via Bldg-sim <<a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.<wbr>org</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Can does not mean you will have an accurate model.  All too often the questions are about what can or what must I do and not about what is best to do.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Bldg-sim [mailto:<a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim-bounces@<wbr>lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Leonard Sciarra via Bldg-sim<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, December 15, 2016 1:05 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] LEED project - maximum limit allowed to simplified wall azimuth.<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><a name="m_-3468618703972235955_m_1399760139389755365__MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black">Julian – </span></a><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black">The text is written to include 45 degrees.  So if they are 45 degrees, then you can make it a square, although the exception was intended for curved surfaces.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black">Hope this helps.</span><u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black">                                                                      <br><b>Leonard Sciarra, AIA, ASHRAE, LEED ap+ </b><br>Senior Associate <br><a href="tel:(312)%20577-6580" target="_blank">+1 312.577.6580</a> Direct <br><a href="tel:(312)%20456-0123" target="_blank">+1 312.456.0123</a> Main <br><a href="tel:(847)%20345-5619" target="_blank">+1 847.345.5619</a> Mobile <br>                                                                      <br></span><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#ee3224">Gensler </span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black"><br>11 East Madison Street<br>Suite 300 <br>Chicago, Illinois 60602 <br>USA</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.gensler.com/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black">Gensler.com</span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black"> | </span><a href="http://www.gensleron.com/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black">Blog</span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black"> | </span><a href="http://www.facebook.com/GenslerDesign" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black">Facebook</span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black"> <wbr>| </span><a href="http://www.twitter.com/GenslerOnCities" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black">Twitter</span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black"> | </span><a href="http://www.youtube.com/GenslerTV" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black">YouTube</span></a><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black">What’s ahead for design and our clients?</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black">Find out here: </span><a href="http://www.gensler.com/doc/gensler-design-forecast-2016" target="_blank"><b><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:red">Gensler Design Forecast 2016</span></i></b></a><u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Bldg-sim [<a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@<wbr>lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>via Bldg-sim<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, December 15, 2016 11:17 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Bldg-sim] LEED project - maximum limit allowed to simplified wall azimuth.<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-family:"Droid Serif"">Hello,</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-family:"Droid Serif""> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Droid Serif"">Does anyone know how to interpret “</span><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">no more than 45 degrees” of </span><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Droid Serif"">exception 5.b - table G3.1 (90.1-2007/2010/2013) ? : </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Droid Serif""> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:35.4pt"><b><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">5.  Building Envelope</span></b><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:35.4pt;text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">All components of the building envelope in the proposed design shall be modeled as shown on architectural drawings or as built for existing building envelopes. </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt;text-indent:35.4pt;text-autospace:none"><b><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Exceptions:</span></b><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt;text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">b. Exterior surfaces whose azimuth orientation and tilt differ by no more than 45 degrees and are otherwise the same may be described as either a single surface or by using multipliers.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Droid Serif"">Because “no more than 45 degree” include 45 degree, does the exception still apply if the azimuth of two walls is exactly 45 degrees? </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Droid Serif"">In other words, considering a LEED project, can a perfect octagonal building shape be modeled as a square building (as long as they have the same floor area and the 8 walls have a similar construction) ?</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Droid Serif""> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Droid Serif"">Thanks</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Droid Serif""> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-family:"Droid Serif"">Julien</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Droid Serif";color:#1f497d">______________________________<wbr>______________________________<wbr>________</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Julien Dutel,</span></b><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> ing., </span><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">CEM, CMVP<b>.</b></span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2e74b5">Direction des secteurs </span></b><b><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2e74b5">résidentiel, institutionnel et des affaires</span></b><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2e74b5">Bureau de l'efficacité et de l'innovation énergétiques</span></b><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2e74b5">Ministère de l'Énergie et des Ressources naturelles</span></b><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2e74b5">5700, 4e Avenue Ouest, B-406</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2e74b5">Québec (Québec)  G1H 6R1</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2e74b5">Téléphone : <a href="tel:(418)%20627-6379" target="_blank">418 627-6379</a>, poste 8060</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2e74b5">Téléphone sans frais : <a href="tel:(877)%20727-6655" target="_blank">1 877 727-6655</a></span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2e74b5">Télécopieur : <a href="tel:(418)%20643-5828" target="_blank">418 643-5828</a></span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><a href="mailto:julien.dutel@mern.gouv.qc.ca" target="_blank">julien.dutel@mern.gouv.qc.ca</a></span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2e74b5"><a href="http://mern.gouv.qc.ca" target="_blank">mern.gouv.qc.ca</a></span></b><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR-CA"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR-CA"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR-CA"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>Bldg-sim mailing list<br><a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org" target="_blank">http://lists.onebuilding.org/<wbr>listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-<wbr>onebuilding.org</a><br>To unsubscribe from this mailing list send  a blank message to <a href="mailto:BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG" target="_blank">BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE@<wbr>ONEBUILDING.ORG</a><u></u><u></u></p></blockquote></div><p class="MsoNormal"><br><br clear="all"><u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal">-- <u></u><u></u></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">James V Dirkes II, PE, BEMP, LEED AP<br>CEO/President<br>The Building Performance Team Inc.<br>1631 Acacia Dr, GR, Mi 49504<br><br>Direct: <a href="tel:(616)%20450-8653" value="+16164508653" target="_blank">616.450.8653</a><br><a href="mailto:jim@buildingperformanceteam.com" target="_blank">jim@buildingperformanceteam.<wbr>com</a><br><br><a href="http://buildingperformanceteam.com" target="_blank">Website </a>l  <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/pub/jim-dirkes/7/444/413" target="_blank">LinkedIn</a> | <a href="http://buildingperformanceteam.com/bpt-insights-blog/item/73-modeled-performance-isn-t-actual-performance" target="_blank">May 2016 ASHRAE Journal article on energy modeling</a><u></u><u></u></p><p style="margin-bottom:6.0pt;text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">All people should seek Truth, and seek it with love's reckless passion. Without that passion, difficulties seem insurmountable and soon erode the search. Society often regards intensity of conviction as dangerous, when it should be cherished so long as it continues to demonstrate love.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""><u></u><u></u></span></p><p style="margin-bottom:6.0pt;text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p style="margin-bottom:6.0pt;text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p style="margin-bottom:6.0pt;text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black;background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial"></span></p>James V Dirkes II, PE, BEMP, LEED AP<br>CEO/President<br>The Building Performance Team Inc.<br>1631 Acacia Dr, GR, Mi 49504<br><br>Direct: 616.450.8653<br><a href="mailto:jim@buildingperformanceteam.com" target="_blank">jim@buildingperformanceteam.com</a><br><br><a href="http://buildingperformanceteam.com" target="_blank">Website </a>l  <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/pub/jim-dirkes/7/444/413" target="_blank">LinkedIn</a> | <a href="http://buildingperformanceteam.com/bpt-insights-blog/item/73-modeled-performance-isn-t-actual-performance" target="_blank">May 2016 ASHRAE Journal article on energy modeling</a><p align="center" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center"><b><i><span style="font-size:14.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"MS Reference Sans Serif","sans-serif""> </span></i></b><span style="font-family:"MS Reference Sans Serif","sans-serif""></span></p><p style="vertical-align:middle">















</p><p style="margin-bottom:6.0pt;text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="4" color="#0000ff"></font></span></p><pre style="white-space:pre-wrap"><p style="margin-bottom:6.0pt;text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">All people should seek Truth, and seek it with love's reckless passion. Without that passion, difficulties seem insurmountable and soon erode the search. Society often regards intensity of conviction as dangerous, when it should be cherished so long as it continues to demonstrate love.</span><br></p><p style="margin-bottom:6.0pt;text-autospace:none">


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