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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=FR-CA link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='font-family:"Droid Serif",serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Thanks Leonard and Nick. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='font-family:"Droid Serif",serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='font-family:"Droid Serif",serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I will model a building with octagonal shape and one with square equivalent shape in the next day. I will let you know the results.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='font-family:"Droid Serif",serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Nick, if you find the “circular to square” study, I will more than happy to read it!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='font-family:"Droid Serif",serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='font-family:"Droid Serif",serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Have a good day<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='font-family:"Droid Serif",serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='font-family:"Droid Serif",serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Julien<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='font-family:"Droid Serif",serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-CA>De :</span></b><span lang=EN-CA> Nicholas Caton [mailto:Nicholas.Caton@schneider-electric.com] <br><b>Envoyé :</b> 15 décembre 2016 13:25<br><b>À :</b> Leonard Sciarra <leonard_sciarra@gensler.com>; Dutel, Julien (BEIE) <Julien.Dutel@mern.gouv.qc.ca><br><b>Cc :</b> bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br><b>Objet :</b> RE: [Bldg-sim] LEED project - maximum limit allowed to simplified wall azimuth.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Put another way:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>If you have a perfectly circular floorplate, ASHRAE wants you to model an octagon, with respect to a minimum number of facets.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>This specific query reminds me: There was a pretty interesting thought-study presented at ASHRAE’s energy conference in 2015 where someone tested this logic, by asking the question (paraphrasing) “how few facets can we get away with and still accurately represent a perfect circle?” I don’t recall exactly the answer but the results surprised me with how far you could go in simplifying the shape & still maintain relative accuracy. I believe a 4 sided square (corrected geometrically for volume) in fact performed very closely to the baseline.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>If you’re sincerely & specifically interested in modeling an octagon as a square, I think you’ll find that could actually be pretty accurate so long as you are correcting for conditioned volume / exposed area. I’d seek out that actual paper/presentation while you’re at it ;-).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>~Nick<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#3A7A46'><img width=722 height=9 id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.png@01D256DA.0A3E4CC0"></span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#3A7A46'>Nick Caton, P.E., BEMP</span></b><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 width=724 style='width:543.0pt;border-collapse:collapse'><tr><td width=230 valign=top style='width:172.3pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469'> Senior Energy Engineer</span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><br></span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469'> Energy and Sustainability Services</span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><br></span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469'> Schneider Electric</span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td width=291 valign=top style='width:218.3pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#57B069'>D </span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469'>913.564.6361 </span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><br></span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#57B069'>M </span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469'>785.410.3317 </span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><br></span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#57B069'>E </span><span style='color:#1F497D'><a href="mailto:nicholas.caton@schneider-electric.com"><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469'>nicholas.caton@schneider-electric.com</span></a></span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><br></span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#57B069'>F </span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469'>913.564.6380</span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td width=203 valign=top style='width:152.4pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal align=right style='text-align:right'><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469'>15200 Santa Fe Trail Drive<br>Suite 204<br>Lenexa, KS 66219<br>United States</span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr style='height:4.0pt'><td width=724 colspan=3 valign=top style='width:543.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm;height:4.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-line-height-alt:4.0pt'><span style='color:#3A7A46'><img border=0 width=722 height=49 id="Picture_x0020_3" src="cid:image002.png@01D256DA.0A3E4CC0" alt="cid:image001.png@01D189AB.58634A10"></span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US> Bldg-sim [<a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Leonard Sciarra via Bldg-sim<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, December 15, 2016 12:05 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] LEED project - maximum limit allowed to simplified wall azimuth.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><a name="_MailEndCompose"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>Julian – </span></a><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>The text is written to include 45 degrees. So if they are 45 degrees, then you can make it a square, although the exception was intended for curved surfaces.</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>Hope this helps.</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'> <br><b>Leonard Sciarra, AIA, ASHRAE, LEED ap+ </b><br>Senior Associate <br>+1 312.577.6580 Direct <br>+1 312.456.0123 Main <br>+1 847.345.5619 Mobile <br> <br></span><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#EE3224'>Gensler </span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><br>11 East Madison Street<br>Suite 300 <br>Chicago, Illinois 60602 <br>USA</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:black'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><a href="http://www.gensler.com/"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>Gensler.com</span></a></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'> | </span><span lang=EN-US><a href="http://www.gensleron.com/"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>Blog</span></a></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'> | </span><span lang=EN-US><a href="http://www.facebook.com/GenslerDesign"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>Facebook</span></a></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'> | </span><span lang=EN-US><a href="http://www.twitter.com/GenslerOnCities"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>Twitter</span></a></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'> | </span><span lang=EN-US><a href="http://www.youtube.com/GenslerTV"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>YouTube</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>What’s ahead for design and our clients?</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>Find out here: </span><span lang=EN-US><a href="http://www.gensler.com/doc/gensler-design-forecast-2016"><b><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:red'>Gensler Design Forecast 2016</span></i></b></a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US> Bldg-sim [<a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>via Bldg-sim<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, December 15, 2016 11:17 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Bldg-sim] LEED project - maximum limit allowed to simplified wall azimuth.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Droid Serif",serif'>Hello,</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Droid Serif",serif'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='font-family:"Droid Serif",serif'>Does anyone know how to interpret “</span><span lang=EN-CA style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>no more than 45 degrees” of </span><span lang=EN-CA style='font-family:"Droid Serif",serif'>exception 5.b - table G3.1 (90.1-2007/2010/2013) ? : </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='font-family:"Droid Serif",serif'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:35.4pt'><b><span lang=EN-CA style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>5. Building Envelope</span></b><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:35.4pt;text-autospace:none'><span lang=EN-CA style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>All components of the building envelope in the proposed design shall be modeled as shown on architectural drawings or as built for existing building envelopes. </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span lang=EN-CA style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt;text-indent:35.4pt;text-autospace:none'><b><span lang=EN-CA style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Exceptions:</span></b><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:70.8pt;text-autospace:none'><span lang=EN-CA style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>b. Exterior surfaces whose azimuth orientation and tilt differ by no more than 45 degrees and are otherwise the same may be described as either a single surface or by using multipliers.</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span lang=EN-CA style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span lang=EN-CA style='font-family:"Droid Serif",serif'>Because “no more than 45 degree” include 45 degree, does the exception still apply if the azimuth of two walls is exactly 45 degrees? </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span lang=EN-CA style='font-family:"Droid Serif",serif'>In other words, considering a LEED project, can a perfect octagonal building shape be modeled as a square building (as long as they have the same floor area and the 8 walls have a similar construction) ?</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span lang=EN-CA style='font-family:"Droid Serif",serif'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span lang=EN-CA style='font-family:"Droid Serif",serif'>Thanks</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='font-family:"Droid Serif",serif'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Droid Serif",serif'>Julien</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='font-family:"Droid Serif",serif;color:#1F497D'>____________________________________________________________________</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Julien Dutel,</span></b><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> ing., </span><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>CEM, CMVP<b>.</b></span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2E74B5'>Direction des secteurs </span></b><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2E74B5'>résidentiel, institutionnel et des affaires</span></b><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2E74B5'>Bureau de l'efficacité et de l'innovation énergétiques</span></b><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2E74B5'>Ministère de l'Énergie et des Ressources naturelles</span></b><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2E74B5'>5700, 4e Avenue Ouest, B-406</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2E74B5'>Québec (Québec) G1H 6R1</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2E74B5'>Téléphone : 418 627-6379, poste 8060</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2E74B5'>Téléphone sans frais : 1 877 727-6655</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2E74B5'>Télécopieur : 418 643-5828</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><a href="mailto:julien.dutel@mern.gouv.qc.ca"><span style='color:blue'>julien.dutel@mern.gouv.qc.ca</span></a></span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span 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