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A final comment on the original question of modeling thermal bridges
in e-QUEST (or any other whole-building energy simulation
program). ASHRAE TC 4.7 had sponsored work on this topic 14 years
ago (2000-2001), "MODELING TWO- AND THREE- DIMENSIONAL HEAT
TRANSFER THROUGH COMPOSITE WALL AND ROOF ASSEMBLIES IN TRANSIENT
ENERGY SIMULATION PROGRAMS (1145-TRP)". The work was done by
Enermodal in association with Oak Ridge National Laboratory and the
Polish Academy of Sciences. The solution was pretty much what I had
mentioned previously, i.e., use a 2-D conduction program (HEATING-7)
to calculate response factors, although the project went one step
further to derive a fictitious 3-layer 1-D wall section with the
same dynamic thermal properties. For more information, please see
the full report available from ORNL at<span style="color:#1F497D">
<a
href="http://web.ornl.gov/sci/roofs+walls/research/detailed_papers/whole_bldg/"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://web.ornl.gov/sci/roofs+walls/research/detailed_papers/whole_bldg/">http://web.ornl.gov/sci/roofs+walls/research/detailed_papers/whole_bldg/</a></a>
.<br>
<br>
Although the project was successful technically, it seemed to have
been ignored by the simulation community, and even in many ways
by TC 4.7 itself! To me,the lesson is that no matter how good is
the widget, there always has to be a tech transfer and
dissemination effort lest the widget just sits on the shelf. As a
reaction to this thread, I am currently bringing up the subject
within TC4.7 whether we need to do a small follow-on project to do
a guideline on modeling 2-D/3-D heat transfer along with a
computer tool that makes it no more difficult (well... maybe a
little more) to do than standard 1-D heat transfer.<br>
<br>
If there's anyone on this bulletin board who thinks such a
project would be useful, please let me know as I make my case to
TC 4.7.<br>
<br>
Joe<br>
(currently chair of TC 4.7)<br>
</span><br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="90">Joe Huang
White Box Technologies, Inc.
346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 205A
Moraga CA 94556
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com">yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com">http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com</a> for simulation-ready weather data
(o) (925)388-0265
(c) (510)928-2683
"building energy simulations at your fingertips"
</pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/1/2016 6:35 AM, Jones, Christopher
wrote:<br>
</div>
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Christian,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
agree that it is important for designers to understand the
effects of thermal bridging at transitions in typical
construction details. But convincing developers to spend the
extra time and construction cost to reduce these thermal
bridges is difficult considering the payback periods range
from 30-40 years depending on the project and location.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><img
id="_x0000_i1030"
src="cid:part2.07090103.09050603@whiteboxtechnologies.com"
alt="cid:image003.png@01D09C46.E75BA0D0" height="43"
width="108"></span><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1C467A"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1C467A">Christopher
Jones,</span></b><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"></span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">P.Eng.<i>
<br>
</i></span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-CA">Senior Engineer<b><o:p></o:p></b></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-CA">WSP Canada Inc.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-CA">2300 Yonge Street, Suite 2300<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-CA">Toronto, ON M4P 1E4</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#595959"
lang="EN-CA"><br>
</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-CA">T +1 416-644-4226<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-CA">F +1 416-487-9766<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-CA">C +1 416-697-0056<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-CA"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.wspgroup.com/">www.wspgroup.com</a>
</span><i><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#565656"
lang="EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
Christian Cianfrone
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:CCianfrone@morrisonhershfield.com">mailto:CCianfrone@morrisonhershfield.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, January 29, 2016 4:52 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jones, Christopher; Joe Huang;
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Bldg-sim] MODELLING THERMAL BRDIGES
IN e-quest or DOE2 (minor correction on dates).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Chris,
Joe,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Refer
to ASHRAE 1365-RP for detailed methodology on the modeling.
The same methodology was used in the BETB Guide.
Sensitivity of transient analysis for the thermal modeling
was addressed in 1365-RP. In terms of thermal mass impacts
on energy modeling, this is dealt with in Appendix C of the
report. Analysis was done using EnergyPlus’ Finite
Difference method for conduction.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Chris
– the point of derating the reference building in the BC
Hydro incentive is to encourage design teams to understand
the actual performance of their envelope (and buildings).
If you just force people to include all thermal bridging
when the codes were clearly developed to ignore most of this
thermal bridging, then nobody will ever account for the full
effects of thermal bridging.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">By
not being realistic, designers end up adding (and paying)
for more insulation with no real added value. And the
relative savings are not the same – The differences in
energy at high R-values are not the same differences in
energy at low R-values.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Paperwork
is quite straightforward too. It requires a few take-offs
and looking up U-values/Psi Values, which an energy modeler
is mostly already doing. We’ll be releasing some how-to
videos in the near future to help folks along. I’ll post to
this group when available.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
name="_MailEndCompose"></a><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Christian
Cianfrone, M.A.Sc., P.Eng., LEED</span></b><sup><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">®</span></sup><b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
AP BD+C<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Principal,
Building Energy Practice Lead<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:email@morrisonhershfield.com"><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">ccianfrone@morrisonhershfield.com</span></a><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#00355E"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.morrisonhershfield.com/Pages/default.aspx"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;text-decoration:none"><img
id="Picture_x0020_1"
src="cid:part6.05090109.00050809@whiteboxtechnologies.com"
alt="Description: Description: Description: Description:
Description: logo4email4" border="0" height="26"
width="225"></span></a><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:3.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Suite
310, 4321 Still Creek Drive | Burnaby, BC V5C 6S7<br>
Dir: 604 454 2006 | Cell: 604 376 1315 | Fax: 604 454
0403<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue">morrisonhershfield.com/sustainability</span></u><u><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue"><o:p></o:p></span></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
Bldg-sim [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jones, Christopher<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, January 29, 2016 10:15 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Joe Huang <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com">yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com</a>>;
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] MODELLING THERMAL BRDIGES
IN e-quest or DOE2 (minor correction on dates).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Joe,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
admit I haven’t read all the appendices. I use mainly
appendix B which contains the steady-state U-values of
dozens of constructions. Appendix C may provide some
insights as to whether or not dynamic characteristics of the
constructions were examined in their energy modeling.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">From
this work, BC Hydro has decided that all thermal bridging in
buildings are to be accounted for when performing modeling
for BC Hydro incentives. But BC Hydro also now includes
blanket factors for de-rating the baseline case energy model
to account for typical thermal bridging not accounted for in
90.1. It is a bit baffling to me as one has to go through a
lot of work, fill in a bunch of forms to come up with almost
no significant difference in relative results:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The
same web page, just below “Resources” includes this
Accounting for Thermal Bridging at Interface Details along
with the spreadsheets:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.bchydro.com/powersmart/business/programs/new-construction.html#thermal"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.bchydro.com/powersmart/business/programs/new-construction.html#thermal">https://www.bchydro.com/powersmart/business/programs/new-construction.html#thermal</a></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><img
id="_x0000_i1026"
src="cid:part2.07090103.09050603@whiteboxtechnologies.com"
alt="cid:image003.png@01D09C46.E75BA0D0" border="0"
height="43" width="108"></span><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1C467A"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1C467A">Christopher
Jones,</span></b><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"></span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">P.Eng.<i>
<br>
</i></span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-CA">Senior Engineer<b><o:p></o:p></b></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-CA">WSP Canada Inc.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-CA">2300 Yonge Street, Suite 2300<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-CA">Toronto, ON M4P 1E4</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#595959"
lang="EN-CA"><br>
</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-CA">T +1 416-644-4226<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-CA">F +1 416-487-9766<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-CA">C +1 416-697-0056<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
Joe Huang [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com">mailto:yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, January 29, 2016 11:46 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jones, Christopher; <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] MODELLING THERMAL BRDIGES
IN e-quest or DOE2 (minor correction on dates).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Christopher, <br>
<br>
I took a brief scroll through the link that you provided, and
yes, there's a lot of information there. I haven't yet found a
technical description of the methodology, but I did get to the
tables with pretty colored pictures of wall sections and their
computed U-values. I hope there's more information on the
dynamic characteristics of these wall sections, i.e., thermal
mass, diffusivity, etc., since those would be needed to model
them correctly in a simulation program.
<br>
<br>
In terms of comparing the methodologies, as you've suggested,
one place to start would be simply comparing the steady-state
U-values derived for the same wall constructions. I've done
some digging on my end and found an old 1997 User News
newsletter with a brief description of the 2-D response factor
work I did with Fred Winkelmann and Vladimir Bazjanac and a
table listing the R-values for the 76 steel-frame wall
sections modeled. Since the whole newsletter is only 657K,
I've attached it with this e-mail. The newsletter is
interesting in other ways, as well, including the announcement
of the 5th IBPSA conference to be held in the Czech Republic
:-) .<br>
<br>
Joe<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>Joe Huang <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>White Box Technologies, Inc.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 205A<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Moraga CA 94556<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com">yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre>(o) (925)388-0265<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>(c) (510)928-2683<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>"building energy simulations at your fingertips"<o:p></o:p></pre>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 1/29/2016 5:18 AM, Jones, Christopher
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Joe,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">It
would be very interesting to compare the methodologies in
your paper with the results of the Morrison Herschfield
research. BC Hydro published that detailed research. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.bchydro.com/powersmart/business/programs/new-construction.html?WT.mc_id=rd_thermalguide#thermal"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.bchydro.com/powersmart/business/programs/new-construction.html?WT.mc_id=rd_thermalguide#thermal">https://www.bchydro.com/powersmart/business/programs/new-construction.html?WT.mc_id=rd_thermalguide#thermal</a></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><img
id="Picture_x0020_2"
src="cid:part2.07090103.09050603@whiteboxtechnologies.com"
alt="cid:image003.png@01D09C46.E75BA0D0" border="0"
height="43" width="108"></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1C467A">Christopher
Jones,</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">P.Eng.<i>
<br>
</i></span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-CA">Senior Engineer</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-CA"> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-CA">WSP Canada Inc.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-CA">2300 Yonge Street, Suite 2300</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-CA">Toronto, ON M4P 1E4</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#595959"
lang="EN-CA"><br>
</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-CA">T +1 416-644-4226</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-CA">F +1 416-487-9766</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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lang="EN-CA"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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lang="EN-CA"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
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<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
Bldg-sim [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Joe Huang<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, January 29, 2016 5:44 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] MODELLING THERMAL
BRDIGES IN e-quest or DOE2 (minor correction on
dates).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">The work I
did for the CEC was done in 1996 (as indicated in the report
title), not 2000-2002, which was a follow-on effort to do
2-D foundation heat flows.<br>
<br>
Joe<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>Joe Huang <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>White Box Technologies, Inc.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 205A<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Moraga CA 94556<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com">yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com">http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com</a> for simulation-ready weather data<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.whiteboxtechnologies.com">http://www.whiteboxtechnologies.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>(o) (925)388-0265<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>(c) (510)928-2683<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>"building energy simulations at your fingertips"<o:p></o:p></pre>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 1/29/2016 2:41 AM, Joe Huang wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">I actually
helped to develop a method to model thermal bridges in
DOE-2 back in 1986 that has never been widely
disseminated, although I still find it the most practical
way to model 2-D heat flows in whole-building simulations.<br>
<br>
This method uses a two-dimensional finite-element program
(WALFERFN) that calculates one-dimensional equivalent
response factors which are written directly into the DOE-2
layers library (BDLLIB.DAT), which can then be called by
DOE-2 just like any other response factor in the library.<br>
<br>
I've always used this technique in my residential
modeling, with the added benefit of not needing to input
duplicate sets of wall layers for the stud and non-stud
portions, which measurably simplifies the models and
makes them easier to read. The last time I did
significant work on this subject was in 2000-2002, when I
created for the California Energy Commission a library of
over 100 wall layers with metal framing and thus
considerable thermal bridging. I compared the wall
assembly U-values to that calculated by ORNL's Heating-7
program, and they were right on. Unfortunately, a few
years after the project was completed, the Commission
decided to move to EnergyPlus as their reference program,
and so this work was effectively abandoned.<br>
<br>
For more information on this technique, i.e., creating 2-D
response factors, please see this report:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.whiteboxtechnologies.com/PAPERS/96_12_YJH_2Drespfacs_CEC_rpt.pdf">http://www.whiteboxtechnologies.com/PAPERS/96_12_YJH_2Drespfacs_CEC_rpt.pdf</a><br>
<br>
If there's anyone who's still running DOE-2 in batch,
rather than just the eQUEST interface, this procedure
should be quite understandable. Just e-mail me and I'll
be happy to give you a copy of the WALFERFN program and
some sample input files.
<br>
<br>
Joe <o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>Joe Huang <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>White Box Technologies, Inc.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 205A<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Moraga CA 94556<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com">yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com">http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com</a> for simulation-ready weather data<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.whiteboxtechnologies.com">http://www.whiteboxtechnologies.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>(o) (925)388-0265<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>(c) (510)928-2683<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>"building energy simulations at your fingertips"<o:p></o:p></pre>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 1/28/2016 1:22 PM, Jim Dirkes
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">There is also a landmark study by
Morrison Hershfield in Canada which I don't have
access to at the moment that should provide
guidance.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 4:11 PM,
Marcus Sheffer <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:sheffer@sevengroup.com">sheffer@sevengroup.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Follow the guidance in ASHRAE
90.1 Appendix A to determine the whole assembly
values.<br>
<br>
Marcus Sheffer<br>
7group<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Jones, Christopher [mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Christopher.r.Jones@wspgroup.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Christopher.r.Jones@wspgroup.com">Christopher.r.Jones@wspgroup.com</a></a>]<br>
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2016 8:30 AM<br>
To: Luis Peréz-Lombard; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] MODELLING THERMAL BRDIGES IN
e-quest or DOE2<br>
<br>
Hello Sir,<br>
eQuest does not have the capability to directly
model thermal bridges. The typical methodology is to
calculate the effective U-value of the
insulation/thermal bridge layer when building your
layers for the construction. BC Hydro has published
significant research on building envelope thermal
bridging. See the lower portion of the webpage:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.bchydro.com/powersmart/business/programs/new-construction.html#thermal"
target="_blank">https://www.bchydro.com/powersmart/business/programs/new-construction.html#thermal</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Christopher Jones, P.Eng.<br>
Senior Engineer<br>
<br>
WSP Canada Inc.<br>
2300 Yonge Street, Suite 2300<br>
Toronto, ON M4P 1E4<br>
T <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%2B1%20416-644-4226">+1 416-644-4226</a><br>
F <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%2B1%20416-487-9766">+1 416-487-9766</a><br>
C <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%2B1%20416-697-0056">+1 416-697-0056</a><br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.wspgroup.com" target="_blank">www.wspgroup.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Bldg-sim [mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Luis Peréz-Lombard<br>
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2016 4:08 AM<br>
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
Subject: [Bldg-sim] MODELLING THERMAL BRDIGES IN
e-quest or DOE2<br>
<br>
Dear building simulation colleagues,<br>
I would very much appreciate any insights or
work around to simulate envelope thermal bridges
in e-quest.<br>
Sincerely,<br>
LPL<br>
-------------------------------------------------------------<br>
Luis Pérez-Lombard<br>
Dr. Ingeniero Industrial<br>
Profesor Contratado Doctor<br>
Departamento de Ingeniería Energética<br>
Escuela Superior de Ingenieros<br>
Universidad de Sevilla<br>
Camino de los Descubrimientos s/n<br>
41092 SEVILLA<br>
Tfno.: 95.448.72.56<br>
Fax: 95.446.31.53<br>
e-mail: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:lpl@us.es">lpl@us.es</a><br>
-------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
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Performance
Team Inc.<br>
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Direct:
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style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray"><br>
You are receiving this communication because you are
listed as a current WSP contact. Should you have any
questions regarding WSP’s electronic communications
policy, please consult our Anti-Spam Commitment
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="www.wspgroup.com/casl">www.wspgroup.com/casl</a>.
For any concern or if you believe you should not be
receiving this message, please forward this message to
us at
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:caslcompliance@wspgroup.com">caslcompliance@wspgroup.com</a>
so that we can promptly address your request. This
message is intended only for the use of the individual
or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain
information which is privileged, confidential,
proprietary or exempt from disclosure under applicable
law. If you are not the intended recipient or the person
responsible for delivering the message to the intended
recipient, you are strictly prohibited from disclosing,
distributing, copying or in any way using this message.
If you have received this communication in error, please
notify the sender, and destroy and delete any copies you
may have received.
<br>
<br>
WSP provides professional land surveying services
through the following entities: WSP Surveys (AB) Limited
Partnership and WSP Surveys (BC) Limited Partnership
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center" align="center"><span
style="color:windowtext">
<hr align="center" size="3" width="100%">
</span></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray"><br>
You are receiving this communication because you are
listed as a current WSP contact. Should you have any
questions regarding WSP’s electronic communications
policy, please consult our Anti-Spam Commitment
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="www.wspgroup.com/casl">www.wspgroup.com/casl</a>.
For any concern or if you believe you should not be
receiving this message, please forward this message to us
at
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:caslcompliance@wspgroup.com">caslcompliance@wspgroup.com</a>
so that we can promptly address your request. This message
is intended only for the use of the individual or entity
to which it is addressed, and may contain information
which is privileged, confidential, proprietary or exempt
from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the
intended recipient or the person responsible for
delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are
strictly prohibited from disclosing, distributing, copying
or in any way using this message. If you have received
this communication in error, please notify the sender, and
destroy and delete any copies you may have received.
<br>
<br>
WSP provides professional land surveying services through
the following entities: WSP Surveys (AB) Limited
Partnership and WSP Surveys (BC) Limited Partnership
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<hr>
<div style="font-size:9pt; color:gray; font-family:Arial,
sans-serif;"><br>
You are receiving this communication because you are listed as a
current WSP contact. Should you have any questions regarding
WSP’s electronic communications policy, please consult our
Anti-Spam Commitment
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="www.wspgroup.com/casl">www.wspgroup.com/casl</a>.
For any concern or if you believe you should not be receiving
this message, please forward this message to us at
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:caslcompliance@wspgroup.com">caslcompliance@wspgroup.com</a>
so that we can promptly address your request. This message is
intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which
it is addressed, and may contain information which is
privileged, confidential, proprietary or exempt from disclosure
under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient or
the person responsible for delivering the message to the
intended recipient, you are strictly prohibited from disclosing,
distributing, copying or in any way using this message. If you
have received this communication in error, please notify the
sender, and destroy and delete any copies you may have received.
<br>
<br>
WSP provides professional land surveying services through the
following entities: WSP Surveys (AB) Limited Partnership and WSP
Surveys (BC) Limited Partnership
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
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