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Christopher, <br>
<br>
I took a brief scroll through the link that you provided, and yes,
there's a lot of information there. I haven't yet found a technical
description of the methodology, but I did get to the tables with
pretty colored pictures of wall sections and their computed
U-values. I hope there's more information on the dynamic
characteristics of these wall sections, i.e., thermal mass,
diffusivity, etc., since those would be needed to model them
correctly in a simulation program. <br>
<br>
In terms of comparing the methodologies, as you've suggested, one
place to start would be simply comparing the steady-state U-values
derived for the same wall constructions. I've done some digging on
my end and found an old 1997 User News newsletter with a brief
description of the 2-D response factor work I did with Fred
Winkelmann and Vladimir Bazjanac and a table listing the R-values
for the 76 steel-frame wall sections modeled. Since the whole
newsletter is only 657K, I've attached it with this e-mail. The
newsletter is interesting in other ways, as well, including the
announcement of the 5th IBPSA conference to be held in the Czech
Republic :-) .<br>
<br>
Joe<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Joe Huang
White Box Technologies, Inc.
346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 205A
Moraga CA 94556
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com">yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com">http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com</a> for simulation-ready weather data
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.whiteboxtechnologies.com">http://www.whiteboxtechnologies.com</a>
(o) (925)388-0265
(c) (510)928-2683
"building energy simulations at your fingertips"
</pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/29/2016 5:18 AM, Jones,
Christopher wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Joe,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">It
would be very interesting to compare the methodologies in
your paper with the results of the Morrison Herschfield
research. BC Hydro published that detailed research. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.bchydro.com/powersmart/business/programs/new-construction.html?WT.mc_id=rd_thermalguide#thermal"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.bchydro.com/powersmart/business/programs/new-construction.html?WT.mc_id=rd_thermalguide#thermal">https://www.bchydro.com/powersmart/business/programs/new-construction.html?WT.mc_id=rd_thermalguide#thermal</a></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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height="43" width="108"></span><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1C467A"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1C467A">Christopher
Jones,</span></b><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"></span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">P.Eng.<i>
<br>
</i></span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-CA">Senior Engineer<b><o:p></o:p></b></span></p>
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lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-CA">WSP Canada Inc.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-CA">2300 Yonge Street, Suite 2300<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-CA">Toronto, ON M4P 1E4</span><span
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lang="EN-CA"><br>
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lang="EN-CA">T +1 416-644-4226<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
Bldg-sim [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Joe Huang<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, January 29, 2016 5:44 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] MODELLING THERMAL BRDIGES
IN e-quest or DOE2 (minor correction on dates).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The work I did for the CEC was done in 1996
(as indicated in the report title), not 2000-2002, which was a
follow-on effort to do 2-D foundation heat flows.<br>
<br>
Joe<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>Joe Huang <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>White Box Technologies, Inc.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 205A<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Moraga CA 94556<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com">yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com">http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com</a> for simulation-ready weather data<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.whiteboxtechnologies.com">http://www.whiteboxtechnologies.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>(o) (925)388-0265<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>(c) (510)928-2683<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>"building energy simulations at your fingertips"<o:p></o:p></pre>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 1/29/2016 2:41 AM, Joe Huang wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">I actually helped to develop a method to
model thermal bridges in DOE-2 back in 1986 that has never
been widely disseminated, although I still find it the most
practical way to model 2-D heat flows in whole-building
simulations.<br>
<br>
This method uses a two-dimensional finite-element program
(WALFERFN) that calculates one-dimensional equivalent
response factors which are written directly into the DOE-2
layers library (BDLLIB.DAT), which can then be called by
DOE-2 just like any other response factor in the library.<br>
<br>
I've always used this technique in my residential modeling,
with the added benefit of not needing to input duplicate
sets of wall layers for the stud and non-stud portions,
which measurably simplifies the models and makes them
easier to read. The last time I did significant work on
this subject was in 2000-2002, when I created for the
California Energy Commission a library of over 100 wall
layers with metal framing and thus considerable thermal
bridging. I compared the wall assembly U-values to that
calculated by ORNL's Heating-7 program, and they were right
on. Unfortunately, a few years after the project was
completed, the Commission decided to move to EnergyPlus as
their reference program, and so this work was effectively
abandoned.<br>
<br>
For more information on this technique, i.e., creating 2-D
response factors, please see this report:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.whiteboxtechnologies.com/PAPERS/96_12_YJH_2Drespfacs_CEC_rpt.pdf">http://www.whiteboxtechnologies.com/PAPERS/96_12_YJH_2Drespfacs_CEC_rpt.pdf</a><br>
<br>
If there's anyone who's still running DOE-2 in batch, rather
than just the eQUEST interface, this procedure should be
quite understandable. Just e-mail me and I'll be happy to
give you a copy of the WALFERFN program and some sample
input files.
<br>
<br>
Joe <br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>Joe Huang <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>White Box Technologies, Inc.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 205A<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Moraga CA 94556<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com">yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com">http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com</a> for simulation-ready weather data<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.whiteboxtechnologies.com">http://www.whiteboxtechnologies.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>(o) (925)388-0265<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>(c) (510)928-2683<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>"building energy simulations at your fingertips"<o:p></o:p></pre>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 1/28/2016 1:22 PM, Jim Dirkes wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">There is also a landmark study by
Morrison Hershfield in Canada which I don't have
access to at the moment that should provide guidance.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 4:11 PM,
Marcus Sheffer <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:sheffer@sevengroup.com">sheffer@sevengroup.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Follow the guidance in ASHRAE 90.1
Appendix A to determine the whole assembly values.<br>
<br>
Marcus Sheffer<br>
7group<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Jones, Christopher [mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Christopher.r.Jones@wspgroup.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Christopher.r.Jones@wspgroup.com">Christopher.r.Jones@wspgroup.com</a></a>]<br>
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2016 8:30 AM<br>
To: Luis Peréz-Lombard; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] MODELLING THERMAL BRDIGES IN
e-quest or DOE2<br>
<br>
Hello Sir,<br>
eQuest does not have the capability to directly model
thermal bridges. The typical methodology is to
calculate the effective U-value of the
insulation/thermal bridge layer when building your
layers for the construction. BC Hydro has published
significant research on building envelope thermal
bridging. See the lower portion of the webpage:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.bchydro.com/powersmart/business/programs/new-construction.html#thermal"
target="_blank">https://www.bchydro.com/powersmart/business/programs/new-construction.html#thermal</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Christopher Jones, P.Eng.<br>
Senior Engineer<br>
<br>
WSP Canada Inc.<br>
2300 Yonge Street, Suite 2300<br>
Toronto, ON M4P 1E4<br>
T <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%2B1%20416-644-4226">+1 416-644-4226</a><br>
F <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%2B1%20416-487-9766">+1 416-487-9766</a><br>
C <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%2B1%20416-697-0056">+1 416-697-0056</a><br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.wspgroup.com" target="_blank">www.wspgroup.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Bldg-sim [mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Luis Peréz-Lombard<br>
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2016 4:08 AM<br>
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
Subject: [Bldg-sim] MODELLING THERMAL BRDIGES IN
e-quest or DOE2<br>
<br>
Dear building simulation colleagues,<br>
I would very much appreciate any insights or work
around to simulate envelope thermal bridges in
e-quest.<br>
Sincerely,<br>
LPL<br>
-------------------------------------------------------------<br>
Luis Pérez-Lombard<br>
Dr. Ingeniero Industrial<br>
Profesor Contratado Doctor<br>
Departamento de Ingeniería Energética<br>
Escuela Superior de Ingenieros<br>
Universidad de Sevilla<br>
Camino de los Descubrimientos s/n<br>
41092 SEVILLA<br>
Tfno.: 95.448.72.56<br>
Fax: 95.446.31.53<br>
e-mail: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:lpl@us.es">lpl@us.es</a><br>
-------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
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<p
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V Dirkes II,
PE, BEMP, LEED
AP<br>
CEO/President<br>
The Building
Performance
Team Inc.<br>
1631 Acacia
Dr, GR, Mi
49504<br>
<br>
Direct:
616.450.8653<br>
<a
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