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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#0F5573">Cory/Jim,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#0F5573"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#0F5573">Because a fan selection only gives a single operating point for a specific system curve, I was interested in seeing if a proposed alternative, i.e. basing the system curve on a point produced by the simulation,
could be a more accurate method of approximating fan energy consumption. But of course, the only known operating point for the fan is based on the fan selection.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#0F5573"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#0F5573">Given that this is the case, would you agree with me that there is no industry standard for establishing a fan power curve, for the purpose of energy modeling? Also, would you agree that the modeler could claim
false savings based on a fan curve that contains low part load input kW? I am not aware of any requirements on the curve itself, and that is really the root of the issue I was trying to bring up.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#0F5573"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#0F5573">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#0F5573"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#0F5573">Nick Blanton<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#0F5573"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> Jim Dirkes [mailto:jim@buildingperformanceteam.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 02, 2015 6:04 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Duggin, Cory<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Nicholas Blanton; bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Fan power calculation for proposed model<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;color:#B45F06">I agree with Cory.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;color:#B45F06">The ASHRAE 90.1 committee would be hard pressed to integrate the different manners that all modeling software could be used to come up with specific simulated flow rates using unspecified (for
the model) operating schedules and internal loads. The designer is already tasked with selecting the fan using best available information, so I think that's a more reliable basis.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 5:08 PM, Duggin, Cory <<a href="mailto:Cory.Duggin@tlc-eng.com" target="_blank">Cory.Duggin@tlc-eng.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">It is my understanding that the proposed model should always be the design values used in selecting the fan not what is calculated by the energy simulation.
I agree the fan most likely will not operate at that flow rate, but that is what we have fan curves for.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="color:#1F497D">Cory Duggin, PE, LEED AP BD+C
</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D">Associate/Energy Modeling Wizard, j.g.</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#333333"><img border="0" width="264" height="80" id="_x0000_i1025" src="cid:image001.jpg@01D0E59C.116F4C70" alt="GreenWeek2015_FINAL-Email-Sig"></span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="color:#006363">TLC Engineering for Architecture
</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#333333">direct: </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D"><a href="tel:615-346-1939" target="_blank">615-346-1939</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b>From:</b> Bldg-sim [mailto:<a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Nicholas Blanton<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 01, 2015 4:03 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Bldg-sim] Fan power calculation for proposed model<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">Please comment on the following:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">Based on Table G3.1.10.a, for an HVAC system in the proposed design, the system is determined by the following:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">“Where a complete HVAC system exists, the model shall reflect the actual system type using actual component capacities and efficiencies.”
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">In design of AHU systems, the scheduled or nameplate flow rate of the equipment is typically higher than the design flow rate of the system, as calculated
by the simulation software. The system fan power calculation is based on the efficiency of the fan and ultimately the design flow rate of the fan. Also, in operation the fan typically does not operate at 60 Hz at peak flow rate, suggesting that the operating
flow rate in this condition is more in line with the design flow rate calculated by the simulation software, rather than the nameplate flow rate of the equipment.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">For these reasons, it is likely the case that the fan power calculation should be based on the design flow rate calculated by the software, rather than
the nameplate flow rate.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">Thanks,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">Nick Blanton<u>
</u></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p>____________________________________________________________<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal">James V Dirkes II, PE, BEMP, LEED AP<br>
CEO/President<br>
The Building Performance Team Inc.<br>
1631 Acacia Dr, GR, Mi 49504<br>
<br>
Direct: 616.450.8653<br>
<a href="mailto:jim@buildingperformanceteam.com" target="_blank">jim@buildingperformanceteam.com</a><br>
<br>
<a href="http://buildingperformanceteamcom" target="_blank">Website </a>l <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/pub/jim-dirkes/7/444/413" target="_blank">LinkedIn</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:6.0pt;text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue">The body must be given a little less than it needs. Otherwise it will turn traitor.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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