<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large;color:#b45f06">I agree with Cory.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large;color:#b45f06">The ASHRAE 90.1 committee would be hard pressed to integrate the different manners that all modeling software could be used to come up with specific simulated flow rates using unspecified (for the model) operating schedules and internal loads. The designer is already tasked with selecting the fan using best available information, so I think that's a more reliable basis.</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 5:08 PM, Duggin, Cory <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:Cory.Duggin@tlc-eng.com" target="_blank">Cory.Duggin@tlc-eng.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US" link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">It is my understanding that the proposed model should always be the design values used in selecting the fan not what is calculated by the energy simulation. I agree the fan most likely will not operate at that flow rate, but that is what we have fan curves for.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:#1f497d">Cory Duggin, PE, LEED AP BD+C <u></u><u></u></span></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1f497d">Associate/Energy Modeling Wizard, j.g.</span></i><i><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></i></p><p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#333333"><img width="264" height="80" src="cid:image001.jpg@01D0E4D0.829BE650" alt="GreenWeek2015_FINAL-Email-Sig"><u></u><u></u></span></i></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:#006363">TLC Engineering for Architecture </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p><table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td valign="bottom" style="padding:0in 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal" align="right" style="text-align:right"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#333333">direct: </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#555555"><u></u><u></u></span></p></td><td valign="bottom" style="padding:0in 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1f497d"><a href="tel:615-346-1939" value="+16153461939" target="_blank">615-346-1939</a></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p></td></tr></tbody></table><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Bldg-sim [mailto:<a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Nicholas Blanton<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 01, 2015 4:03 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Bldg-sim] Fan power calculation for proposed model<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><div><div class="h5"><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">Please comment on the following:<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">Based on Table G3.1.10.a, for an HVAC system in the proposed design, the system is determined by the following:<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">“Where a complete HVAC system exists, the model shall reflect the actual system type using actual component capacities and efficiencies.” <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">In design of AHU systems, the scheduled or nameplate flow rate of the equipment is typically higher than the design flow rate of the system, as calculated by the simulation software. The system fan power calculation is based on the efficiency of the fan and ultimately the design flow rate of the fan. Also, in operation the fan typically does not operate at 60 Hz at peak flow rate, suggesting that the operating flow rate in this condition is more in line with the design flow rate calculated by the simulation software, rather than the nameplate flow rate of the equipment.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">For these reasons, it is likely the case that the fan power calculation should be based on the design flow rate calculated by the software, rather than the nameplate flow rate.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">Nick Blanton<u> </u></span><u><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></u></p><p>____________________________________________________________<br>Electronic mail messages entering and leaving Arup business<br>systems are scanned for acceptability of content and viruses<u></u><u></u></p></div></div></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black;background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial"></span></p>James V Dirkes II, PE, BEMP, LEED AP<br>CEO/President<br>The Building Performance Team Inc.<br>1631 Acacia Dr, GR, Mi 49504<br><br>Direct: 616.450.8653<br><a href="mailto:jim@buildingperformanceteam.com" target="_blank">jim@buildingperformanceteam.com</a><br><br><a href="http://buildingperformanceteamcom" target="_blank">Website </a>l <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/pub/jim-dirkes/7/444/413" target="_blank">LinkedIn</a><p align="center" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center"><b><i><span style="font-size:14.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"MS Reference Sans Serif","sans-serif""> </span></i></b><span style="font-family:"MS Reference Sans Serif","sans-serif""></span></p><p style="vertical-align:middle">
</p><p style="margin-bottom:6.0pt;text-autospace:none"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">The
body must be given a little less than it needs. Otherwise it will turn traitor</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">.</span></font></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
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