<div dir="ltr">Former lighting designer here.<div><br></div><div>You should use the "gymnasium" number, and use a space by space calc. If you think about it, a natatorium is the same space size/volume and occupancy as a gym, with similar footcandle requirements for both recreation and competition. I have successfully used this on many LEED EAc1 submittals. Electrical engineers for these projects use the gymnasium number for COMCheck as well. It's definitely the norm. </div><div><br></div><div>Good luck!</div><div>Elizabeth</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><b>Elizabeth Gillmor <font size="1">PE, LC, LEED AP</font></b><div><br></div><div><span style="font-size:large;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><b><font color="#38761d" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">e n e r g e t i c s </font></b></span><b><font color="#38761d" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">consulting engineers, llc</font></b></div><div><font size="2" style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" color="#666666"><a href="http://energetics-eng.com" target="_blank">energetics-eng.com</a></font></div><div><span style="font-size:small;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#666666">c 303.619.0091</font></span><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jun 4, 2015 at 10:30 AM, Cam Fitzgerald <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:fitzgerald@sevengroup.com" target="_blank">fitzgerald@sevengroup.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US" link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">Hello Julien,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">Usually, Nick’s advice is spot on, but I have to disagree that it would be appropriate to apply an exception for exterior lighting to an indoor pool. I expect the exclusion for outdoor playing fields, etc relates to light pollution limitations, allowing player safety to supersede the restrictions. This would be akin to using the parking garage and parking lot lighting to be sued interchangeably. Keep in mind that exterior lighting is a mandatory provision and interior lighting is a prescriptive measure – apples and oranges. I think you are on the right track with the gymnasium alternatives. Section 3 includes specific definitions for interior versus exterior spaces and that should be what determines whether you use Table 9.4.5 or 9.5.1/<a href="http://9.6.1." target="_blank">9.6.1.</a><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">Just my 2 cents </span><span style="font-family:Wingdings;color:#1f497d">J</span><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#3d9959">Cam Fitzgerald<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#3d9959"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#3d9959">Energy Opportunities/a 7group company<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Bldg-sim [mailto:<a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b><a href="mailto:Julien.Dutel@mern.gouv.qc.ca" target="_blank">Julien.Dutel@mern.gouv.qc.ca</a><br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 04, 2015 12:13 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:ncaton@catonenergy.com" target="_blank">ncaton@catonenergy.com</a>; <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Swimming pool lighting with 90.1<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-family:"Droid Serif";color:#1f497d">Hi Nick,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-family:"Droid Serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Droid Serif";color:#1f497d">The question was for a demonstrating prescriptive compliance. <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Droid Serif";color:#1f497d">Thanks for your quick and detailed answer (I’m really surprised that we could invoke an outdoor lighting exception for an interior lighting!)<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Droid Serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Droid Serif";color:#1f497d">Julien<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Droid Serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-CA">De :</span></b><span lang="EN-CA"> Nicholas Caton [<a href="mailto:ncaton@catonenergy.com" target="_blank">mailto:ncaton@catonenergy.com</a>] <br><b>Envoyé :</b> 4 juin 2015 11:54<br><b>À :</b> Dutel, Julien (BEIE); <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Objet :</b> RE: [Bldg-sim] Swimming pool lighting with 90.1<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#002060">Hi Julien,</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#002060"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#002060">For either case, and even if the pools are interior to the building, I would consider citing “Lighting for swimming pools and water features” is under the exempted list for exterior lighting power calculations under 90.1-2010, and more broadly “athletic playing areas” under 90.1-2007. </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#002060"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#002060">Evoking that exception, you could </span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style="color:#002060">A)</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#002060"> </span><span style="color:#002060">have the baseline match the proposed (for a PRM model), </span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style="color:#002060">B)</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#002060"> </span><span style="color:#002060">omit that lighting power entirely (for demonstrating prescriptive compliance), or else</span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style="color:#002060">C)</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#002060"> </span><span style="color:#002060">the stage is then set for you to differentiate from the baseline by demonstrating how your design saves energy relative to “standard” pool lighting by way of separate/exceptional calculations.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#002060"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#002060">If you want to wrap into your interior LPD regardless, </span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style="color:#002060">1.</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#002060"> </span><span style="color:#002060">Gymnasium/Sports Arena/Exercise Center seem to be the likely candidates for BAM. </span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style="color:#002060">2.</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#002060"> </span><span style="color:#002060">Class I through Class IV comes from IESNA Handbook/RP-6, and is used to differentiate illuminance recommendations based upon the degree of competition (ranging from professional/national at Class I down to amateur/recreational at class IV). I’d suggest having your lighting designer determine which set of illumination recommendations best matches the photometric calculations for pool surface/deck surface illumination.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#002060"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#002060">~Nick</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#002060"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#002060">NICK CATON, P.E.</span></b><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><br></span><b><span style="color:#561782">Owner</span></b><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:#561782"> </span></b><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#561782">Caton Energy Consulting</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"><br></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1f497d"> 1150 N. 192<sup>nd</sup> St., #4-202</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1f497d"> Shoreline, WA 98133<br> office: <a href="tel:785.410.3317" value="+17854103317" target="_blank">785.410.3317</a></span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#561782"><a href="http://www.catonenergy.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:#561782">www.catonenergy.com</span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#002060"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Bldg-sim [mailto:<a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b><a href="mailto:Julien.Dutel@mern.gouv.qc.ca" target="_blank">Julien.Dutel@mern.gouv.qc.ca</a><br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 04, 2015 7:42 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Bldg-sim] Swimming pool lighting with 90.1<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Droid Serif"">Hello,</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Droid Serif""> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Droid Serif"">I have two concrete cases where I’m embarrassed regarding lighting in a swimming pool with 90.1.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Droid Serif""> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Droid Serif"">Case 1 : A swimming pool building (the building is a swimming pool)</span></u><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Droid Serif"">In the lighting section of 90.1, the Building Area Method (9.5) has no building area type corresponding specifically to a swimming pool. My guess would be to choose the “Gymnasium” because as a swimming pool, there is high ceiling and locker room.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Droid Serif""> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:35.4pt"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Droid Serif"">Using the Building Area Method, is the “Gymnasium” a correct assumption for a swimming pool building ? </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Droid Serif""> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Droid Serif"">Case 2 : A swimming pool in a residential building</span></u><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Droid Serif""> Assuming that the “multifamily”’s LPD doesn’t allow me to comply to the Building Area Method, and I decide to choose the space by space method. My guess would be to choose a building-specific space type in the list “Sport Arena”, but I’m block by these <a href="http://energy-models.com/forum/energy-modeling-software/trace-700/leed-and-ashrae-901/lighting-power-density-space-space-meth" target="_blank">unanswered question</a> : what is the meaning of the class ? :</span><u></u><u></u></p><p style="margin-left:71.4pt"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:Symbol">·</span><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif""> </span><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Droid Serif"">Court sport arena – class 4</span><u></u><u></u></p><p style="margin-left:71.4pt"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:Symbol">·</span><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif""> </span><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Droid Serif"">Court sport arena – class 2</span><u></u><u></u></p><p style="margin-left:71.4pt"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:Symbol">·</span><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif""> </span><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Droid Serif"">Court sport arena – class 1</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Droid Serif""> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:35.4pt"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Droid Serif"">Using the Space by Space Method, what would be the best building-specific space type for the area dedicated to the pool ?</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Droid Serif""> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Droid Serif""> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Droid Serif"">Thanks,</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Droid Serif""> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Droid Serif"">Julien</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Droid Serif""> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Droid Serif";color:green">Julien Dutel,</span></b><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Droid Serif";color:green"> ing., CEM, CMVP<b>.</b></span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Droid Serif";color:black">Direction des secteurs résidentiel, institutionnel et des affaires</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Droid Serif";color:black">Bureau de l'efficacité et de l'innovation énergétiques</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Droid Serif";color:black">Ministère des Ressources naturelles</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Droid Serif";color:black">5700, 4e Avenue Ouest, B-406</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Droid Serif";color:black">Québec (Québec) G1H 6R1</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Droid Serif";color:black">Téléphone : <a href="tel:418%20627-6379" value="+14186276379" target="_blank">418 627-6379</a>, poste 8060</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Droid Serif";color:black">Téléphone sans frais : <a href="tel:1%20877%20727-6655" value="+18777276655" target="_blank">1 877 727-6655</a></span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Droid Serif";color:black">Télécopieur : <a href="tel:418%20643-5828" value="+14186435828" target="_blank">418 643-5828</a></span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR-CA"> </span><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Droid Serif";color:black"><a href="http://www.efficaciteenergetique.mrn.gouv.qc.ca/" target="_blank"><span style="color:blue">http://www.efficaciteenergetique.mrn.gouv.qc.ca</span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
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