<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif;font-size:16px"><div id="yiv6147449922"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432789746090_32036"><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif;font-size:16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432789746090_32035">Dear All,</div><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif;font-size:16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432789746090_32035"><br></div><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif;font-size:16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432789746090_32035" dir="ltr">Thanks a lot for all the responses. I followed the procedure outlined in the LG guide. The overall savings are up by 13%, savings on cooling alone is up by 35% when compared to the default DX curves. Of course there is unmet hour issue as i have considered PSZ system.</div><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif;font-size:16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432789746090_32035" dir="ltr"><br></div><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif;font-size:16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432789746090_32035" dir="ltr">Also i tried a few trials to understand which particular curve is responsible for the higher savings and found that "f(t entering wet bulb, t enter condenser) curve gives higher savings. And then changing the cooling capacity curve provides additional savings. The least impact is from the PLR curve.</div><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif;font-size:16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432789746090_32035" dir="ltr"><br></div><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif;font-size:16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432789746090_32035" dir="ltr">Now the question is whether the savings achieved is justifiable. Has anyone else come across the same issue?.</div><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif;font-size:16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432789746090_32035" dir="ltr"><br></div><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif;font-size:16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432789746090_32035" dir="ltr">I am concerned about the savings because, in a core and shell project, with DX curves the project is achieving 5% savings and once i input the VRF curves, the savings shoots to more than 15%. Meeting LEED mandatory is dependent on the VRF curves. </div><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif;font-size:16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432789746090_32035" dir="ltr"><br></div><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif;font-size:16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432789746090_32035" dir="ltr">I am working on Equest software. </div><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif;font-size:16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432789746090_32035" dir="ltr"><br></div><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif;font-size:16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432789746090_32035" dir="ltr">Regards,</div><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif;font-size:16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432789746090_32035" dir="ltr">Rathnashree</div><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif;font-size:16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432789746090_32035" dir="ltr"><br></div><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif;font-size:16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432789746090_32035" dir="ltr"><br clear="none"><div class="yiv6147449922qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432789746090_32037"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div></div></div></div><div class=".yiv6147449922yahoo_quoted"> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif;font-size:16px;"> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif;font-size:16px;"> <div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div class="yiv6147449922yqt5209212861" id="yiv6147449922yqt20284"><div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> On Thursday, 28 May 2015 4:57 PM, Chris Yates <chris.malcolm.yates@gmail.com> wrote:<br clear="none"> </font> </div> <br clear="none"><br clear="none"> <div class="yiv6147449922y_msg_container"><div id="yiv6147449922"><div><div dir="ltr"><div>Interesting post and thanks for the info - I find VRF a bit of a 'black box' when it comes to modelling. Part of the issue is the huge variety of indoor/ outdoor unit combinations.</div><div><br clear="none"><div>I have no doubt that the better VRF systems are a superb technology. However, I do believe some of the performance claims are audacious (I can only speak of the European market). For example, heat recovery VRF with seasonal average heating COP (kW/kW) > 8.0 and seasonal Cooling EER > 6 is competing with centrifugal chillers - the most advanced VRF compressor technology I know of is scroll.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>I guess part of my beef is not trusting the Euro test standards for VRF!</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Bye for now</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Chris</div></div></div><div class="yiv6147449922gmail_extra"><br clear="none"><div class="yiv6147449922gmail_quote">On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 3:18 PM, Qureshi, Harris <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Harris.Qureshi@stantec.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:Harris.Qureshi@stantec.com">Harris.Qureshi@stantec.com</a>></span> wrote:<br clear="none"><blockquote class="yiv6147449922gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div class="yiv6147449922yqt8572153373" id="yiv6147449922yqt40029"><div lang="EN-US"><div><div class="yiv6147449922MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;">Hi Rathna,<u></u><u></u></span></div><div class="yiv6147449922MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;"><u></u> <u></u></span></div><div class="yiv6147449922MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;">What software are you using ? You might want to go through the attached modelling protocol attached from LG as Sherif mentions . <u></u><u></u></span></div><div class="yiv6147449922MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;"><u></u> <u></u></span></div><div class="yiv6147449922MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;">Harris <u></u><u></u></span></div><div class="yiv6147449922MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;"><u></u> <u></u></span></div><div><div><div class="yiv6147449922MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:rgb(255,155,38);">Harris Qureshi, B.E(Mech), MSc. Energy, LEED AP Homes</span></b><span style="color:rgb(255,155,38);"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div class="yiv6147449922MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;">Mechanical Engineer<br clear="none">Stantec<br clear="none">Dubai Investment Park, PO Box 52764 Dubai UAE <br clear="none">Phone: <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="">+971-4-812-5947</a><br clear="none">Cell: <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="">+971-50-189-9924</a><br clear="none"></span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Harris.Qureshi@stantec.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:Harris.Qureshi@stantec.com"><span style="color:black;">Harris.Qureshi@stantec.com</span></a><span style="color:black;"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div class="yiv6147449922MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;"> <u></u><u></u></span></div></div><table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="padding:0in;"><div class="yiv6147449922MsoNormal"><u></u><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.stantec.com/"><img align="left" width="100" height="27" title="" alt="Stantec" src="http://www.stantec.com/content/dam/stantec/images/esignature/stantec.png" border="0"></a><u></u><span style="color:blue;"><u></u><u></u></span></div></td></tr></tbody></table><div><div class="yiv6147449922MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;"> <u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div class="yiv6147449922MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;"> <u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div class="yiv6147449922MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;">The content of this email is the confidential property of Stantec and should not be copied, modified, retransmitted, or used for any purpose except with Stantec's written authorization. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete all copies and notify us immediately.<u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div class="yiv6147449922MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;"> <u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div class="yiv6147449922MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(0,128,64);font-family:Webdings;font-size:10pt;">ΓΌ</span><span style="color:blue;"> </span><span style="color:rgb(0,128,64);">Please consider the environment before printing this email.</span><span style="color:blue;"> </span><span style="color:blue;"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div><div style="border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;border-color:rgb(181,196,223) currentColor currentColor;padding:3pt 0in 0in;"><div class="yiv6147449922MsoNormal"><b><span style="">From:</span></b><span style=""> Bldg-sim [</span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org"><span style="">mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</span></a><span style="">] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Sherif Farag<br clear="none"><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 27, 2015 5:26 PM<br clear="none"><b>To:</b> Rathna Shree<br clear="none"><b>Cc:</b> BldgSim Mailing List; </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:equest-users@onebuilding.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:equest-users@onebuilding.org"><span style="">equest-users@onebuilding.org</span></a><span style=""><br clear="none"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] VRF performance curve<u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div class="yiv6147449922MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></div><div class="yiv6147449922MsoNormal">Hi Rathna,<u></u><u></u></div><div><div class="yiv6147449922MsoNormal">LG has a plug-in that works good with eQuest, I tried it and I noticed the % of energy saving will be on the region of 20% when compared to PTAC (Not compared to the App G. Baseline).<u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div class="yiv6147449922MsoNormal">Thanks;<u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div class="yiv6147449922MsoNormal">Sherif Farag<u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div class="yiv6147449922MsoNormal">Technical Director<u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div class="yiv6147449922MsoNormal">Integrated Environmental Services (IES) Ltd. <u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div class="yiv6147449922MsoNormal">Abu Dhabi - UAE<u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div class="yiv6147449922MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></div><div><blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt;"><div><div class="yiv6147449922h5"><div><div class="yiv6147449922MsoNormal">On May 27, 2015, at 11:18 AM, Rathna Shree <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:rathnashreep@yahoo.in" target="_blank" href="mailto:rathnashreep@yahoo.in">rathnashreep@yahoo.in</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></div></div><div class="yiv6147449922MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></div></div></div><div><div><div class="yiv6147449922h5"><div><div><div><div class="yiv6147449922MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">Dear All,<u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div class="yiv6147449922MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""><u></u> <u></u></span></div></div><div><div class="yiv6147449922MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">I worked on a couple of projects in equest using the VRF performance curves from Daikin and LG. The methodology i followed is as below:<u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div class="yiv6147449922MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""><u></u> <u></u></span></div></div><div><div class="yiv6147449922MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">1) Modelled packaged VAV with minimum flow ratio 1. <u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div class="yiv6147449922MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">2) Created systems based on number of ODU's and assigned multiple zones to the respective ODU. (Just like modelling a AHU)<u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div class="yiv6147449922MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">3) Inputted the ODU Cooling capacity and supply flow<u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div class="yiv6147449922MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">4) Fans will be constant volume.<u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div class="yiv6147449922MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">5) Since it is a cooling only system, i assigned only the "Cool EIR - fEWB-OAT", "Cool-EIR-fPLR" and "Cool cap-fEWB&OAT" curves. Rest were all default DX unit curves.<u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div class="yiv6147449922MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""><u></u> <u></u></span></div></div><div><div class="yiv6147449922MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""> PVAV system is used as PSZ system cannot handle multiple zones well thus causing unmet hours.<u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div class="yiv6147449922MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""><u></u> <u></u></span></div></div><div><div class="yiv6147449922MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">I did 2 trials, one with default DX curves and the other with performance curves from LG and Daikin. The results showed a decrease in cooling energy consumption by more than 30% thus impacting the overall energy consumption by more than 10%. <u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div class="yiv6147449922MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""><u></u> <u></u></span></div></div><div><div class="yiv6147449922MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">Is the simulation methodology and results appropriate? I feel the savings is on a higher side.<u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div class="yiv6147449922MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""><u></u> <u></u></span></div></div><div><div class="yiv6147449922MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">Please advise.<u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div class="yiv6147449922MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""><u></u> <u></u></span></div></div><div><div class="yiv6147449922MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div class="yiv6147449922MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">Rathnashree<u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="yiv6147449922MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Bldg-sim mailing list<br clear="none"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org</a><br clear="none">To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG" target="_blank" href="mailto:BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG">BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG</a><u></u><u></u></div></div></blockquote></div><div class="yiv6147449922MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></div></div></div></div></div><br clear="none">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
Bldg-sim mailing list<br clear="none">
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org</a><br clear="none">
To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG" target="_blank" href="mailto:BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG">BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG</a><br clear="none">
<br clear="none"></blockquote></div><br clear="none"></div></div></div><br clear="none"><div class="yiv6147449922yqt8572153373" id="yiv6147449922yqt06519">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Bldg-sim mailing list<br clear="none"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org</a><br clear="none">To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG" target="_blank" href="mailto:BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG">BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG</a><br clear="none"></div><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div></div> </div> </div> </div></div></body></html>