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Brilliant response! Thanks.<br>
<br>
If there's a load defined in the design brief then this is typically
an undiversified design load. I guess an appropriate diversity
factor should be modelled in this case.<br>
<br>
Are the COMNET appendices B&C freely available? I started out
with COMNET (or at least our software vendor's interpretation of
it), but it seemed to have quite high plug loads and low occupancy
gain.<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
<br>
Chris<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 13/02/2014 21:36, Nick Caton wrote:<br>
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">This
matches my experience as well for plug loads.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
would only plan to itemize plug loads for LEED documentation
if attempting to document an energy saving measure above and
beyond 90.1 pertaining to receptacle loads (such as plug
load circuit controls required by the upcoming title 24). <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">ASHRAE
recommends 0.75 W/ft2 for office building receptacle power
density in the user’s manual for 90.1-2007 (for when you
don’t have better data to found the inputs on). 10W/m2 is
approximately 0.93W/ft2 (if my math is right), so that’s
certainly within a reasonable range of expectations.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
do not anticipate you will have any issues. I’ve regularly
documented exactly the value per the user’s manual citing
that as the source in my documentation with no further
comment.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">~Nick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><img
id="Picture_x0020_1"
src="cid:part1.08070108.08050402@gmail.com"
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height="37"></span><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus
BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus
BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Stylus
BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E">NICK
CATON, P.E.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#CC9900">SENIOR
ENGINEER<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#CC9900"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E">Smith
& Boucher Engineers</span><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E">25501
west valley parkway, suite 200<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E">olathe,
ks 66061<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E">direct
913.344.0036<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E">fax
913.345.0617<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="www.smithboucher.com"
title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;color:blue">www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span
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</span></u><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Duggin, Cory<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 13, 2014 3:26 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> David Eldridge;
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Leed eac1 Plug loads<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I’ve
never had to provide an itemized list for equipment loads
after simply telling them the receptacle loads were modeled
as designed per space type.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Cory
Duggin, EI
<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#333333">Energy
Engineer I
<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#006363">TLC
Engineering for Architecture
</span></b><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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cellspacing="0">
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<td style="padding:0in 0in 0in 0in" valign="bottom">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:right"
align="right"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#333333">direct: </span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#555555"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:0in 0in 0in 0in" valign="bottom">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">615-346-1939<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>David Eldridge<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 13, 2014 3:24 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Leed eac1 Plug loads<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">At
lower than 25% levels GBCI likely will ask for an itemized
list to show that you’ve considered all of the potential
contributors. In addition to Fred’s list, add elevators if
these aren’t separately modeled. Water coolers. Anything
that shows up with a connection in the electrical plans.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">David<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">
</span></u><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">David
S. Eldridge, Jr., P.E., LEED AP BD+C, BEMP, BEAP, HBDP<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#244061">Grumman/Butkus
Associates</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">
</span></u><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Fred Betz<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 13, 2014 3:17 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Chris Yates; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Leed eac1 Plug loads<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Chris,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The
plug loads are the plug loads. The 25% is just a guidance
value from USGBC/GBCI. I’ve been over and under this level
numerous times without a problem.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">If
you’ve used the load estimated by the mechanical and/or
electrical engineers and apply an appropriate schedule then
it should be good enough.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">When
you’re under the 25% threshold a text box will appear for
you to explain why. Just state that you’ve modeled the plug
loads as designed.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">10
W/m2 sounds a little low for an office. If the owner has
made a commitment to use Energy Star devices or laptops for
everyone, then 10 W/m2 is plausible. Don’t forget to include
other equipment like servers/IT equipment, copiers and
kitchen equipment (microwave, coffee maker, etc.)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Fred<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<table class="MsoNormalTable" style="width:355.5pt" width="474"
border="0" cellpadding="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="width:126.9pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"
valign="top" width="169">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#660000;text-transform:uppercase">Fred
Betz</span></b><b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#333333">
</span></b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#333333">PhD.,
LEED AP ®BD&C<br>
</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#333333;text-transform:uppercase">Senior
Sustainable<br>
Systems Analyst</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#333333"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:7.6pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"
valign="top" width="10">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#333333"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:215.0pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"
valign="top" width="287">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#660000">AEI</span></b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#333333">
| AFFILIATED ENGINEERS, INC. <br>
5802 Research Park Blvd. | Madison, WI 53719<br>
<br>
</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#660000">P:
608.236.1175 | F: 608.238.2614</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#333333"> <br>
</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#660000"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:fbetz@aeieng.com"><span
style="color:#660000;text-decoration:none">fbetz@aeieng.com</span></a>
|
<b><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.aeieng.com/"><span
style="color:#660000;text-decoration:none">www.aeieng.com</span></a></b></span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#333333">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
Chris Yates [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:chris.malcolm.yates@gmail.com">mailto:chris.malcolm.yates@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 13, 2014 2:28 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Bldg-sim] Leed eac1 Plug loads<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>Dear bldg sim'rs <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I'm a little concerned that the plug loads I've modelled in
my offices are low and could leed to some unwanted usgbc
comments.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I'm meeting the 25% requirement but the peak load in the
offices is 10w/m2. Whilst i dont think this is overly
optimistic the reviewers may think otherwise. Has anybody had
experience of plug loads being queried in detail?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Many thanks<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Chris<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Sent from my Android device. Please excuse typos, etc.<o:p></o:p></p>
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