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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Roger the huge challenge. Bear in mind
that the project won't want to pay any more no matter how many
things they change and the profession quickly becomes a losing
proposition.<br>
<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP BD&C
+1 916 966 9060
FAX +1 916 966 9068
===============================================
</pre>
On 10/25/2013 7:38 AM, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Dru.Crawley@bentley.com">Dru.Crawley@bentley.com</a> wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
agree too. Models that can change as the design evolve are
a huge challenge.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">In
presentations I give on challenges of doing energy
simulation, I describe a corporate HQ project that I worked
on (a LONG time ago). We started in predesign, looking
shape – a very long linear building that we rotated and did
a number of simulations on shape. By schematic design the
building had changed to L-shaped… more simulations… When we
got to conceptual design that become an H. In design
development, the owner decided to incorporate a 50 kW data
center. By the end of construction documents, the building
was X-shaped with a central atrium… Keeping up with these
changes throughout design is a real challenge. About all
that stays the same are your space types, the location, and
maybe some other settings.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
Duggin, Cory [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:Cory.Duggin@tlc-eng.com">mailto:Cory.Duggin@tlc-eng.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 24, 2013 11:14 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Dennis Knight; Dru Crawley<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Bldg-sim] Energy needs at an early
design stage<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
agree with Dennis. Typically the design evolves so much
between the need for conceptual modeling and the more
discrete system sizing modeling, I end up building a new
model. With that in mind, I still think the eQuest wizards
are the easiest and quickest way to run conceptual model
options. Then I move to IES VE for my more detailed
modeling.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Magneto;color:#1F497D">Cory
Duggin, EI</span></b><span
style="font-family:Magneto;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#333333">Energy
Engineer I<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#333333">direct:
615-346-1939<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<td style="padding:0in 0in 0in 0in" valign="bottom"><br>
</td>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Dennis Knight<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 24, 2013 10:02 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> EnergySimulator .<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Energy needs at an early
design stage<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">All,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">This has been a great thread. My
experience has been that the early stage models for
building orientation and envelope optimization are not of
much use, other than the insight gained from the exercise,
when you move from that phase of the project to system
sizing and equipment selection during the design phase,
whether your are working with a manual input workflow into
a simulation tool or trying to automate the input through
Sketchup, Revit, Bentley, ArchiCAD, etc. Load
calculations, equipment sizing, air distribution system
device and distribution system design and selection pretty
much demand room-by-room analysis. Its hard to take
conceptual models, exterior surface area models, massing
and "shoe-box" models and grow them into room-by-room
models using the same original input files. I'm very
interested in what you all have to say about this process
and does any of these tools make the transition from
concept to full blown design any less painfull?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dennis<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 10:16 AM, <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Dru.Crawley@bentley.com" target="_blank">Dru.Crawley@bentley.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">In
addition to being able to do EnergyPlus simulation
during conceptual design using AECOsim Energy
Simulator , users can also do ASHRAE heating and
cooling load calculations and look at ASHRAE
Standards 90.1 and 62.1 prescriptive and
whole-building energy compliance (90.1 ECB and PRM
(App G).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">To
see the conceptual modeling capabilities, it starts
about 6:30 mins into this video:
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://youtu.be/ZFuKIISoVhk" target="_blank">http://youtu.be/ZFuKIISoVhk</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
Dru Crawley
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, October 23, 2013 6:53 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org"
target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Energy needs at an early
design stage</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Bentley
Systems’ AECOsim Energy Simulator has a conceptual
mode – about 10 inputs (mostly from drop-down
boxes), draw the outline of the footprint, select
from a dozen preconfigured HVAC system
(drag-and-drop components, all 90.1 required
baseline and budget systems), and simulate. And it
uses EnergyPlus. Once your conceptual model is
ready, you can modify all the default parameters.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Free,
30-day trial available from:
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.bentley.com/en-US/Products/AECOsim+Energy+Simulator/"
target="_blank">
http://www.bentley.com/en-US/Products/AECOsim+Energy+Simulator/</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org"
target="_blank">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org"
target="_blank">mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Wagemakers, Jens (2034464)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, October 23, 2013 6:23 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org"
target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Bldg-sim] [Spam:*****] Energy
needs at an early design stage</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:10.0pt"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Dear all,
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:10.0pt"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Does
anyone of you know a software program which I can
use to calculate the energy needs of a building
(installed power) at an early stage (design). With
the usual programs like EnergyPlus or Trnsys you
need to insert a lot of parameters to get the
information, parameters which just aren’t allways
available in the design stage.
<br>
The calculations don’t have to be very precise,
I’m looking for a tool which can give an
acceptable result, so we can give our customer an
idea of how much power is needed for a certain
building.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:10.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:10.0pt"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Greatfully,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:10.0pt">Jens
Wagemakers (The Netherlands)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- <br>
M. Dennis Knight, P.E., FASHRAE<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Founder & CEO<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>W</b>hole <b>B</b>uilding <b>S</b>ystems,
LLC<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">P.O. Box 1845<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Mt. Pleasant, SC 29465<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Phone: 843-437-3647<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:dknight@wholebuildingsystems.com"
target="_blank">
dknight@wholebuildingsystems.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Website: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.wholebuildingsystems.com"
target="_blank">
www.wholebuildingsystems.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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