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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The baseline guidelines might both still apply though, let me throw this interpretation out there.
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Either way, you should ask for clarification on your proposed path before submitting if possible.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Model the existing as-is per the reference that you noted. Seems straightforward.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Whole-building totals might still be required to match the 40% and 5%,
<u>unless superseded by #1. This seems to be the point of discussion with the reviewer</u>.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">In that case the baseline total glazing for the existing portion would be modeled as existing. The new construction baseline would have any remainder of glazing
area up to 40%. It sounded like you would be below 40% total, so model as you did before with the basline = proposed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">For skylights the existing building “consumes” more than 5% of the whole project, therefore the skylight area would be capped at whatever the actual percentage
is based on the existing. The baseline would not have skylights in the new construction unless they were required to be added by some other part of the code or local requirements in order to meeet the 5% requirement. This could benefit you if the project is
adding photocell control of the lighting in the new addition in conjunction with the skylights.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">G1.3 is tricky since there is also a new portion to the project that can still impact the overall percentages, even if the existing portion is modeled as-is.
And none of the complex is excluded from the renovation, although the envelope may not be changing. Assuming that lighting, HVAC, and interiors are being renovated in the existing warehouse? Otherwise your LEED project boundary should only be the new addition.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">David<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">
</span></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">David S. Eldridge, Jr., P.E., LEED AP BD+C, BEMP, BEAP, HBDP</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#244061">Grumman/Butkus Associates</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">
</span></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Santiago Velez<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 05, 2013 11:27 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Maria Karpman<br>
<b>Cc:</b> bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Modelling 90.1 Baseline Envelope for Existing + Additions<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Maria thanks for sharing your opinion. I will reach out to the reviewer. It's good to know there can be different interpretation. I do understand that if you are certifying as "New construction and Mayor renovations" it might make sense
that you need demonstrating savings against the full new Baseline defined by Appendix G. It would be nice if future editions of the standard were more clear about this and other issues that seem to fall in grey areas.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Santiago.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">2013/11/5 Maria Karpman <<a href="mailto:maria.karpman@karpmanconsulting.net" target="_blank">maria.karpman@karpmanconsulting.net</a>><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Santiago,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I would reach out to the reviewer and argue that your original interpretation is correct. Appendix G Table 3.1.5 f that you quoted below clearly suggests that the baseline building
design for renovation projects shall reflect existing conditions prior to any revisions. The section covers all aspects of envelope including thermal and solar properties, assembly type, and surface area, so there is no indication that the “existing conditions”
mentioned in 3.1.5 f exclude fenestration / skylight area. I don’t see why this rule should be void for projects that include both renovation and addition. Section G1.3 is also relevant:
</span><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt">G1.3 Trade-Off Limits. </span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt">When the proposed modifications apply to less than the whole building,
<u>only parameters related to the systems to be modified shall be allowed to vary</u>. Parameters relating to unmodified existing conditions or to future building components shall be identical for determining both the
<i>baseline building performance </i>and the <i>proposed building performance</i>.</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> Since the window/skylight area is not modified, it should produce neither penalty nor credit
for the proposed design. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Maria
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Santiago Velez<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 04, 2013 7:16 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nick Caton<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Modelling 90.1 Baseline Envelope for Existing + Additions</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">PS. : My interpretation was mostly based on
<b>Appendix G Table 3.1.5 f) "Existing Buildings. For existing building envelopes, the baseline building design shall reflect existing conditions prior to any revisions that are part of the scope of work being evaluated."</b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">2013/11/4 Santiago Velez <<a href="mailto:santiagogvelez@gmail.com" target="_blank">santiagogvelez@gmail.com</a>><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Nick, thanks for the response. The answer is yes, I'am trying to make a case for exceeding the 5% threshold for existing bit of the project, which is not modified.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">The project is a big existing conditioned warehouse, with lots of skylights (18% of roof area), the new bit is
an office building, with more skylights (properly shaded this time!). I thought it would be fare to have a baseline which maintains the existing bit exactly the same (18% skylights), and the new addition according to Table G3.1.5 (5%). The global skylight
area for the whole project is <b>12%</b>, and this was reviewed. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">The opposite happens for vertical fenestration, warehouse has almost no windows, and the new office is fully glazed.
With the same criteria, existing stays the same, new is 40% max; then the proposed ends up with global 32% WWR and baseline only 28%. This was reviewed as well. Am I explaining my self?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">I thought this would be fair, and in fact it made so much sense I thought it was the only possible interpretation...
Its very good to remember one an be <b>very</b> wrong.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">So my approach should be: </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">- For vertical fenestration, 32% both baseline and proposed. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">- For the skylights, I would multiple every skylight by 5/12 to get a global 5% skylight. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> Hmmm....energy savings are going to plummet. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Thank you again Nick.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#888888"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#888888">Santiago.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">2013/11/4 Nick Caton <<a href="mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com" target="_blank">ncaton@smithboucher.com</a>><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Proposed and Baseline areas/layouts matching works perfectly until you exceed either 40% for vertical
or 5% for skylights. See Table G3.1.5, baseline items c. and d. This might be coincidence, but just to be cover all bases: 28% + 12% = 40% is an incorrect reading – the skylight and vertical fenestration thresholds are independent.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I think you are to leave the vertical fenestrations alone (being under the 40% threshold) and you
need to proportionally lower the area of the skylights in the baseline model to get back to 5%. Proposed model needs to match actual design so it’s skylights remain the same.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I’m not certain how or if the project being a major renovation has any bearing on the matter.
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Are you making the case that the existing skylights are envelope components not being touched, and
so should remain equal in area between the models despite exceeding the 5% threshold? Do you have additional new skylights complicating the matter?
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">~Nick</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E">NICK CATON, P.E.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#CC9900">SENIOR ENGINEER</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#CC9900"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E">Smith & Boucher Engineers</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E">25501 west valley parkway, suite 200</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E">olathe, ks 66061</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E">direct 913.344.0036</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E">fax 913.345.0617</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><a href="http://www.smithboucher.com" target="_blank" title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue">
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Santiago Velez<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 04, 2013 3:20 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Bldg-sim] Modelling 90.1 Baseline Envelope for Existing + Additions</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<h4 style="margin-bottom:15.0pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#545454;font-weight:normal">Dear forum users, I have modelled a project following Appendix G. and have received a review regarding
my interpretation of % glazed area on the baseline.</span><o:p></o:p></h4>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;vertical-align:baseline;outline:0px"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#545454">The project is a mayor renovations + Additions (existing conditioned warehouse + New office building
attached). There were no modification on % area of vertical and horizontal glazing on the existing bit of the building.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;vertical-align:baseline;outline:0px"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#545454">My approach was to model existing envelope, shape and fenestration, exactly the same in both proposed
and baseline. The addition was modelled following the "maximum 40% for vertical fenestration and 5% for skylight" rule. The result of the whole building for baseline is, 28% vertically glazed and 12% of skylights (the existing bit was very different than 40%,
and 5% respectively)<br>
The reviewer states that the end result for the baseline should still be 40% and 5%. It is not very clear to me how would I get there.. Do I have to make the existing fenestration proportionally smaller, just like I would do for the baseline of a completely
new building?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;vertical-align:baseline;outline:0px"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#545454">Thanks in advance.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;vertical-align:baseline;outline:0px"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#545454">Santiago.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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