<html><head><style type='text/css'>p { margin: 0; }</style></head><body><div style='font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #000099'><font color="#000099" face="Arial" size="3">I think modeling is one thing, and understanding the causes and results when </font><font color="#000099" face="Arial">modeling</font><font color="#000099" face="Arial" size="3"> is something else. It is like the X-ray technician and the doctor who look at the X-ray image to interpret it. Yes, we need professional modeler, but we also need building technology experts who can derive meaningful information from the energy model to evaluate and improve the design. Otherwise, it will be shooting in the dark. </font><div><font color="#000099" face="Arial"><br></font><font color="#000099" face="Arial" size="3">----- Original Message -----</font><br><font color="#000099" face="Arial" size="3">From: "Jeff Haberl" <jhaberl@tamu.edu></font><br><font color="#000099" face="Arial" size="3">To: "Pavel Dybskiy" <pdybskiy@ryerson.ca></font><br><font color="#000099" face="Arial" size="3">Cc: bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</font><br><font color="#000099" face="Arial" size="3">Sent: Sunday, March 4, 2012 6:05:50 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern</font><br><font color="#000099" face="Arial" size="3">Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Building Energy Modeling Guidelines</font><br><br>
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<p>O.K.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Here goes...</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Jeff</p>
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<p> </p>
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<div style="DIRECTION: ltr" id="divRpF271032"><font color="#000000" size="2" face="Tahoma"><b>From:</b> pdybskiy@gmail.com [pdybskiy@gmail.com] on behalf of Pavel Dybskiy [pdybskiy@ryerson.ca]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, March 04, 2012 3:48 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jeff Haberl<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Paul Carey; 韩星; Ellen Franconi; bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Building Energy Modeling Guidelines<br>
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<div></div>
<div>Jeff,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>1) Is it correct to say that any problem discussed on this list can be answered by referring to some of sources that were just mentioned?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I have always found that the sample files that come with DOE-2 and EQUEST provide advise on how to model 90% of most buildings. The 10% would include things that can't be modeled well with DOE-2 and/or EQUEST including: atriums, borrowed-lite windows (i.e.,
glass on an inside partition), courtyard buildings with interior gardens (i.e., evaporative cooling that leads to different temps in the courtyard -- see John Reynolds book). If one adds the 17 DOE EnergyPlus files, then you could make that 95%.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>2) More general.. Can you give an estimate on how many professionals in BEM community (ten, hundred, thousand) are, let's say, 100% educated, 'self-sufficient', capable of demonstrating the ultimate level of knowledge?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Whew! I think there are about 100+ or so ASHRAE Certified BEM modelers...which grows every month. Conservatively, if you doubled or tripled that number to include good modelers that have not taken the exam, then you might have a few hundred folks that
are certified or equivalent.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>If you want to know those who are capable of demonstrating the ultimate knowledge, you'd have to be code-specific, and then I would guess there are probably less than 20 persons per code or less that really know what they are doing well enought to write
rewrite the code (i.e., DOE-2), or edit the FORTRAN and recompile the code. Unfortunately, many of the folks who wrote the original algorithms for DOE-2 and BLAST (a part of EnergyPlus) are no longer around.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>In the case of EnergyPlus, I would guess there are maybe 20 people that really know the code well enough to edit it and/or write new modules. Obviously, those who worked on it, and a few more, that's about it.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>For TRNSYS, the number is probably smaller. In the U.S. the source of most knowledge about TRNSYS is in Wisconsin (i.e., TESS or UofW-M).</div>
<div> </div>
<div>3) More specifically.. From your experience, what is an average percentage of graduates from your school who becomes an expert in BEM? </div>
<div> </div>
<div>I've always believed that it takes about 10 years of constant use to become expert. I educate about 10 to 20 persons per year, and have done so for 27 years. So, about 1/2 of my students may or may not have been praticing for 10 years, which brings them
into the realm of becoming expert. Our current staff at the ESL who work on our code-compliant web-based calculator are all expert level (...they now teach me!).<br>
</div>
<div>4) More on this... How many BEM schools are there in US? </div>
<div> </div>
<div>I'm sure I'll insult someone here...</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Can you name them? <br>
</div>
<div>I can name schools where I know folks: MIT, PSU, TAMU, UT, OSU, CU, UC Berkeley, UofI, ASU, UofW-Milwaukee, UofW-Madison, UofW-Milwaukee, Purdue,UPenn, Cornell, CUNY, U.Kansas...and others.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Jeff</div>
<div> </div>
<div>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++</div>
<div><br>
Thank you,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Pavel Dybskiy<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2012/3/4 Jeff Haberl <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jhaberl@tamu.edu" target="_blank">jhaberl@tamu.edu</a>></span><br>
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<p>Ellen,</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Here's a few more:</p>
<p> </p>
<p>1. In a way the sample files that come with DOE-2.1e are showing you examples of buildings that LBNL assembled to go with DOE-2. You can view these with DrawBDL. However, there is only limited text that explains he intent of the file, and now guideline so
to speak about modeling a building, in general.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>In a similar fashion, EQUEST comes with input files that you can view as well that pretty much cover the full range of building types.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Finally, the DOE EnergyPlus standard 17 building type files (that came originally from Joe Huang I'm told) are also examples of how to model different building types.
</p>
<p> </p>
<p>There are also the books by Joe Clarke, Godfried Augenbroe, Jan Hensen/Roberto Lambert on simulation that provide varying advice on simulation.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Also, TRNSYS has lots of files in their library that show how to model different things (mostly systems), that are useful as well.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Problem is with any guide, anywhere is that, at some point, is has to be specific to a particular simulation program, or else it becomes so general that it loses it meaning.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>If you want something that is really interesting, look at the 1958 ASHRAE paper by Buchberg that talks about modeling a one room hut using an analog electrical circuit...this was the start of it all.
</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Jeff</p>
<p> </p>
<div>
<p> </p>
<div><font color="#0000ff" face="Tahoma">8=! 8=) :=) 8=) ;=) 8=) 8=( 8=) 8=() 8=) 8=| 8=) :=') 8=)8=?<br>
<br>
Jeff S. Haberl, Ph.D.,P.E., <a href="mailto:FASHRAE..............jhaberl@tamu.edu" target="_blank">
FASHRAE..............jhaberl@tamu.edu</a><br>
<br>
Professor............................................................Office Ph: <a href="about:blank" target="_blank">
979-845-6507</a><br>
<br>
Department of Architecture.............................Lab Ph:<a href="about:blank" target="_blank">979-845-6065</a><br>
<br>
Energy Systems Laboratory.............................FAX: <a href="about:blank" target="_blank">
979-862-2457</a><br>
<br>
Texas A&M University.....................................77843-3581<br>
<br>
College Station, Texas, USA, 77843..................URL:<a href="http://www.esl.tamu.edu" target="_blank">www.esl.tamu.edu</a><br>
<br>
8=/ 8=) :=) 8=) ;=) 8=) 8=() 8=) :=) 8=) 8=! 8=) 8=? 8=)8=0<br>
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<div style="DIRECTION: ltr"><font color="#000000" face="Tahoma"><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">
bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [<a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] on behalf of Paul Carey [<a href="mailto:paul@zed-uk.com" target="_blank">paul@zed-uk.com</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, March 04, 2012 2:53 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 韩星; Ellen Franconi<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Building Energy Modeling Guidelines<br>
</font><br>
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<div>
<div class="h5">
<div></div>
<div>Ashrae 90.1 isn't a guideline? Its a set of massively prescriptive and defined rules for assessing buildings against benchmark buildings.
<br>
<br>
We have a similar document to some extent in the UK. The national calculation methodology document that accompanies the iSBEM energy calculation tool available from the BRE outlines how to model in accordance with UK regulations or at least it does to some
extent. <br>
<br>
Ok whilst writing this I've altered my opinions and so both are probably worth adding to list as they do have some useful information on how to define zones, etc rather than just being code style documents.<br>
<br>
Kind regards<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Sent from my HTC<br>
<br>
Dr Paul Carey<br>
Director<br>
<br>
Zero Energy Design Ltd<br>
10a Portland Place<br>
2-22 Mottram Road<br>
Stalybridge<br>
Cheshire<br>
UK<br>
SK15 3AD<br>
<br>
Tel - <a href="about:blank" target="_blank">+44 161 3386200</a><br>
Mob - <a href="about:blank" target="_blank">+44 789 4098012</a><br>
Email - <a href="mailto:paul@zed-uk.com" target="_blank">paul@zed-uk.com</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
----- Reply message -----<br>
From: "韩星" <<a href="mailto:foolishstar@163.com" target="_blank">foolishstar@163.com</a>><br>
Date: Sun, Mar 4, 2012 03:02<br>
Subject: [Bldg-sim] Building Energy Modeling Guidelines<br>
To: "Ellen Franconi" <<a href="mailto:efranconi@rmi.org" target="_blank">efranconi@rmi.org</a>><br>
Cc: <<a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a>><br>
<br>
<br>
Of course ASHRAE 90.1 APPENDIX G is the most popular guideline I think<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
At 2012-03-04 06:05:51,"Ellen Franconi" <<a href="mailto:efranconi@rmi.org" target="_blank">efranconi@rmi.org</a>> wrote:<br>
I am compiling a list of published Building Energy Modeling Guidelines. I know of a few and was hoping to get some help from all of you to fill it out. This is what I know of:<br>
<br>
1) CIBSE Applications Manual AM11: 1998, Building Energy and Environmental Modelling. The manual is available to members of the United Kingdom organization - the Chartered Institution of Building Services (CIBSE).<br>
<br>
2) From the Colorado Governor's Energy Office, ENERGY MODELING: A GUIDE FOR THE BUILDING PROFESSIONAL. See
<a href="http://rechargecolorado.org/images/uploads/pdfs/Energy_Modelling_062411.pdf" target="_blank">
http://rechargecolorado.org/images/uploads/pdfs/Energy_Modelling_062411.pdf</a><br>
<br>
3) AIA Modeling Guidelines (believe there is a draft out for public review) but what I find on their website is:<br>
An Architects Guide to Integrated Modeling Within the Design Process<br>
<br>
4) GSA BIM to BEM also out for public review,see: <a href="http://www.gsa.gov/portal/content/105075" target="_blank">
http://www.gsa.gov/portal/content/105075</a><br>
<br>
5) ASHRAE Research Project 1468 BIM to BEM,<br>
<br>
What have others come across?<br>
<br>
--<br>
Ellen Franconi, PhD, LEED AP, BEMP<br>
Senior Consultant, Built Environment Team<br>
<br>
Rocky Mountain Institute<br>
1820 Folsom Street<br>
Boulder, CO 80302<br>
<a href="about:blank" target="_blank">303.567.8609</a> (Desk)<br>
<a href="about:blank" target="_blank">303.245.7213</a> (Fax)<br>
<br>
Rocky Mountain Institute drives the efficient and restorative use of<br>
resources, creating a world thriving, verdant, and secure, for all, for ever.<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.rmi.org" target="_blank">http://www.rmi.org</a><br>
<br>
<br>
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</blockquote>
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<br>
<br clear="all">
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-- <br>
Best Regards,<br>
<br>
Pavel Dybskiy<br>
<a href="http://M.A.Sc" target="_blank">M.A.Sc</a>. Candidate, Department of Architectural Science<br>
Faculty of Engineering, Architecture and Science, Ryerson University<br>
E-mail: <a href="mailto:pdybskiy@ryerson.ca" target="_blank">pdybskiy@ryerson.ca</a>;<br>
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