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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Very well put, Bill!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>To Bill’s first two bullets, I’ll concur and further add that there are cases wherein a space is intentionally and rationally not designed to achieve ordinary comfort parameters. A clear example that springs to my mind is auto-service garages, which I have seen commonly conditioned to an extent, but not with the relatively tight deadbands expected inside an office space. In such cases, for the specific purpose of determining unmet hours in an energy model (which itself is ultimately a means of checking the intended performance of the system is being modeled), it’s may be entirely appropriate to revise the parameters defining an unmet hour, or to effectively remove that space from the tally entirely.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I’ll simultaneously re-emphasize Bill’s final point: A significant amount of unmet hours should always be treated first as a <u>symptom</u> indicating a potential problem to identify and correct within the modeled system/building behavior. Relaxing the parameters of what the model is reporting for unmet hours should only be done judiciously and on a space-by-space basis following the sort of logic we’re discussing, not liberally as a means of masking the symptom.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>~Nick<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><img width=119 height=37 id="_x0000_i1027" src="cid:image003.jpg@01CCB0E1.24D3EB20" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB"></span><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'>NICK CATON, P.E.</span></b><b><span style='font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#CC9900'>SENIOR ENGINEER<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#CC9900'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'>Smith & Boucher Engineers</span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'>25501 west valley parkway, suite 200<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'>olathe, ks 66061<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'>direct 913.344.0036<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'>fax 913.345.0617<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="www.smithboucher.com" title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue'> </span></u><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Bishop, Bill<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, December 02, 2011 10:17 AM<br><b>To:</b> Jim Dirkes<br><b>Cc:</b> bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] ASHRAE 90.1 unmet load hours<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Jim,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I concur with your understanding of how to define unmet load hours. Your hotel poses challenges for meeting the unmet load hours requirement, as you described.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Unfortunately this can be a difficult problem to solve, especially in the proposed design where the actual HVAC system design might not be able to handle the diversity of loads.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>There have been a lot of good suggestions in the forums about how to reduce unmet hours. I have a few general suggestions (by no means an exhaustive list).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>For zones that are not controlled by a thermostat, or are only loosely temperature-controlled by being next to a tightly-controlled space, change to “unconditioned” or relax the thermostat setpoints as Chris suggested.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Use a lower heating setpoint for spaces that are heating-only and not kept “comfortable”, like stairwells, mechanical/electrical spaces etc.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Tweak the systems, especially at the zonal level - flowrates, capacities, supply setpoints etc., while taking care not to deviate substantially from the actual design.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Back off from aggressive nighttime setbacks and/or model a warmup period in the MIN-AIR-SCH if the unmet hours are when the system fans first come on.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Adjust space load amounts and schedules (occupancy, misc equip and lighting).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Use air walls where appropriate to even out loads/temperatures between zones.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>These suggestions assume that your systems are operating in the model as you intend, and that we’re not talking about thousands of unmet hours. Most of these suggestions need to be applied to both the baseline and proposed models and it is easy to lose track of changes if you’re not careful.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Some people advocate increasing the throttling range in problem zones (in both baseline and proposed models), which always works because you are redefining what “unmet hours” are. My opinion is that this should be done only as a last resort since you are not actually improving the modeled system performance.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Bill<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><a href="mailto:wbishop@pathfinder-ea.com"><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Medium","sans-serif";color:black;text-decoration:none'><img border=0 width=481 height=118 id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image004.png@01CCB0E1.24D3EB20"></span></b></a><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Chris Yates<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, December 02, 2011 9:40 AM<br><b>To:</b> Jim Dirkes<br><b>Cc:</b> bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] ASHRAE 90.1 unmet load hours<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p>Hi james<br>Is it possible to relax your setpoints in proposed and baseline whilst still meeting A55 requirements? <br>Would this help?<br>Chris<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 2 Dec 2011 14:32, "Jim Dirkes" <<a href="mailto:jim@buildingperformanceteam.com">jim@buildingperformanceteam.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Dear Forum,<br>Feedback requested, please! I’ve looked at some past posts on this general topic and think I am asking about aspects not previously discussed….</span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>From previous posts and my own understanding:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'>·</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>If one or more zones is not meeting its setpoint in a given hour, you have 1 unmet load hour. If 500 zones all fail to meet their setpoint in one hour, it’s till one unmet load hour.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'>·</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Add all such hours in a year to obtain your total unmet load hours, which cannot exceed 8,760.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I am now modeling a hotel with:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'>·</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>“Massive” wall elements in the lower floors with moderate amounts of glass, “lightweight” construction in the upper floors with a lot of glass</span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'>·</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Occupancy schedules that are all over the map for Office, Assembly / Meeting Rooms, Kitchen & Restaurant, and Guest Rooms</span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'>·</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Individual HVAC systems for almost every occupancy type.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'>·</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Presentation to all points of the compass, especially the Guest Tower, which is a 16-sided (roughly cylindrical) tower</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>This model is making my life very difficult trying to get unmet load hours below 300! As I think about why that is happening, it strikes me that the combination of mass, schedules and orientations are spreading the unmet loads around to different hours than is normal for many buildings. Can any of you share your thoughts about that perspective?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thanks!</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='color:#1F497D'>ASHRAE 90.1-2007</span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-autospace:none'><b><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:TimesNewRomanPS-BoldItalicMT'>unmet load hour: </span></i></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:TimesNewRomanPSMT'>an hour in which one or more zones is outside of the thermostat setpoint range.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><img border=0 width=336 height=192 id="_x0000_i1026" src="cid:image005.jpg@01CCB0E1.24D3EB20" alt="Description: Description: BPT BizCard JVDII Updated"><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>The real measure of a person’s wealth is how much they’re worth after losing all their money.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>_______________________________________________<br>Bldg-sim mailing list<br><a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org" target="_blank">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org</a><br>To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to <a href="mailto:BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG">BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></body></html>