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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Well wait a second - if I have a building with no windows, and I go to one with say 40% glass, there is going to be a huge increase in energy consumption, and we can't assume it will be offset by daylight harvesting as that is an expensive thing for a spec office building developer (as an example) to provide. And this particular building is not getting any of the daylight and views credits because of shape. (so Paul, it is truly a net penalty to add windows, especially since we're talking about at least 2 or 3 EAc1 pts).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>There is only a 4% savings delta in the point thresholds for new buildings vs existing buildings (3 pts under CS is 8% for existing buildings and 12% for new buildings).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I can almost guarantee that if I am comparing a baseline <b><u>existing</u></b> building with </span><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'>no</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> glass to a proposed building with 40% glass, it will show substantially worse savings than if I was comparing a baseline <b><u>new</u></b> building with </span><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'>40%</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> glass to a proposed building with 40% glass. And by substantially, I mean more than 4% worse.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>With that in mind, I would actually BENEFIT from treating the baseline building as a new building. That doesn't seem right ?? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>But I appreciate everyone's input. I guess I've just "snuck" 3 or 4 existing building projects thru the system.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>-James<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Nick Caton [mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 11, 2011 2:54 PM<br><b>To:</b> Paul Riemer; James Hansen; Anne Juran; bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Bldg-sim] LEED and existing envelopes<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I’ve never done a core & shell model, so take this opinion with a grain of salt (it’s only my opinion):</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>This reviewer’s interpretation seems to make a lot of sense to me. Have the baseline represent the actual existing building, and have the proposed match the actual design. To my understanding, the only reason we make them match 1:1 for new construction is there isn’t a better means (like when you have an existing building) to define a baseline that would treat evenhandedly all building types/climates/circumstances, so we have them match to at least ensure level playing field.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Put another way, and in response to James’ query, I think if adding windows (nice or not) cause the energy bills to go up in an existing building, then that should be reflected in the energy model. Simultaneously, if you are interested to add daylighting “in moderation,” and locate/orient glazing & shading devices in a fashion that lowers the annual bills, then that should also be reflected in the energy model. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>It’s important to remember not all exterior glazing is bad from an energy perspective, particularly when daylighting controls for the building interior lighting are added into the mix. WWR is one area where “engineers and architects” (or “energy and aesthetics,” if that better describes your design team) do not need to be on opposite ends of the table!</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>~Nick</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><img width=119 height=37 id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CC8826.E45DA960" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB"></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'>NICK CATON, P.E.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#CC9900'>SENIOR ENGINEER</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#CC9900'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'>Smith & Boucher Engineers</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'>25501 west valley parkway, suite 200</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'>olathe, ks 66061</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'>direct 913.344.0036</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'>fax 913.345.0617</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>www.smithboucher.com</span><u><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue'> </span></u><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul Riemer<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 11, 2011 1:46 PM<br><b>To:</b> 'James Hansen'; Anne Juran; bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] LEED and existing envelopes</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I also agree with the reviewer. The existing envelope condition stipulation is a double edged sword. Do you truly think it is a net penalty on your LEED application to add windows? Other LEED points reward daylight and views, and the thermal energy impacts of the windows are hopefully offset by electric lighting savings. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#5F574F'>Paul Riemer, PE, LEED AP BD+C</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#C00000'>DUNHAM</span></b><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>James Hansen<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 11, 2011 1:31 PM<br><b>To:</b> Anne Juran; bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] LEED and existing envelopes</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Thanks for the responses Anne and Bill. But this seems ridiculous, and goes against everything I've done to date.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>So if we have an existing building with no windows, and we want to reuse the building structure/skin (which LEED strongly encourages), we get penalized for wanting some daylight in the building? <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I think all of the references to the "baseline building envelope shall represent existing conditions" is intended to demonstrate that you can use existing window and wall coefficients, NOT that you can't add windows. But what do I know...<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Does anyone know for sure?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b>GHT Limited<br>James Hansen, P.E., LEED AP</b><br>Senior Associate<br>1010 N. Glebe Road, Suite 200<br>Arlington, VA 22201-4749<br>703-243-1200 (office)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>703-338-5754 (cell)<br>703-276-1376 (fax)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><a href="http://www.ghtltd.com/">www.ghtltd.com</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b>From:</b> Anne Juran [mailto:juran@summerconsultants.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 11, 2011 2:02 PM<br><b>To:</b> James Hansen; bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Bldg-sim] LEED and existing envelopes<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I find existing envelopes always tricky because the information is not delivered in the clearest manner. However, I think in this case the reviewer is correct, based on 90.1 Table G3.1.5 item f under “Baseline Building Performance” and page G-17 of the User’s Manual. Also, in item c they explicitly state that it applies to new buildings and additions, but do not list existing (other than the little blip about alterations and 5.1.3.)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b>From:</b> bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>James Hansen<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 11, 2011 10:23 AM<br><b>To:</b> bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br><b>Subject:</b> [Bldg-sim] LEED and existing envelopes<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I know this has been covered before, but I just received the following comment from a GBCI reviewer for a v3 Core and Shell project I'm working on. The project is basically an existing 5-story warehouse with almost no windows. Part of the renovation is adding windows. The comment is as follows:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Table 1.4.1B indicates that the window-to-gross-wall ratio is identical in both cases; however it is unclear whether any fenestration was added or removed as part of the renovation. The baseline ratio must reflect the ratio as it existed prior to the renovation and the proposed ratio must reflect the ratio as it exists after the renovation. Revise the Baseline and/or Proposed cases as necessary so that the window-to-gross-wall ratio is accurately modeled and provide a revised prerequisite form and updated energy model output summaries as necessary. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I didn't think that this was the case - I thought that if you had an existing building, any EXISTING-TO-REMAIN windows would show up as the existing window type, but any NEW windows in the proposed alteration would be matched in the baseline model and comply with the Table 5.5 requirements. Meaning the WWR remained the 1:1 as long as it was < 40% glass.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I think this is just a matter of educating the reviewer on our building, but I wanted to make sure that there hadn't been a shift in how GBCI reviews existing buildings.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Thanks!<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b>GHT Limited<br>James Hansen, P.E., LEED AP</b><br>Senior Associate<br>1010 N. Glebe Road, Suite 200<br>Arlington, VA 22201-4749<br>703-243-1200 (office)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>703-338-5754 (cell)<br>703-276-1376 (fax)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><a href="http://www.ghtltd.com/">www.ghtltd.com</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>The information contained in this communication is confidential, may be privileged, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the property of GHT Limited. Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify me immediately by return e-mail or by e-mail to <a href="mailto:ght@ghtltd.com">ght@ghtltd.com</a>, and destroy this communication and all copies thereof, including all attachments. Thank you.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></span></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>The information contained in this communication is confidential, may be privileged, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the property of GHT Limited. Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify me immediately by return e-mail or by e-mail to </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><a href="mailto:ght@ghtltd.com"><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>ght@ghtltd.com</span></a></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>, and destroy this communication and all copies thereof, including all attachments. Thank you.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><P align=left><FONT size=2><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT color=#0000ff>
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