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Hi Chou,<br><br>I understand that the meaning of these loads are:<br><ol><li>Monthly Heating/Cooling loads: it's the monthly average sume of all gains and loses of your space<br></li><li>Hourly gains: it indicates for every hour of a specific day what its the behaviuor of each kind of energy flow<br></li><li>Specific gain hourly or monthly allow you to know the behaviuor of that energy transfer</li></ol>Each point allows you to know differents aspects. The first only gives you the total for every month, the second allows you analize what load is important in a specific day and the last aspect allows you to know the anual behaviuor of a specific transfer of energy.<br><br>I don't know if it's clearly now or I confuse you more<br><br>Regards<br><br>Paula Esquivias<br>Department of Architectural Construction 1<br>High Technical School of Architecture<br>University of Seville (Spain)<br><br><br><div>From: bldg-sim-request@lists.onebuilding.org<br>Subject: Bldg-sim Digest, Vol 47, Issue 9<br>To: bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br>Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 13:30:45 -0700<br><br><pre>Send Bldg-sim mailing list submissions to<br> bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br> <br>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br> <a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org" target="_blank">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org</a><br>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br> bldg-sim-request@lists.onebuilding.org<br> <br>You can reach the person managing the list at<br> bldg-sim-owner@lists.onebuilding.org<br> <br>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>than "Re: Contents of Bldg-sim digest..."<br></pre><br><br>--Archivo adjunto de mensaje reenviado--<br>From: csz59@mst.edu<br>To: bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br>Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 12:20:57 -0500<br>Subject: [Bldg-sim] loads and gians in Ecotect<br><br>Hi <br><br>I have some problem when using Ecotect to make thermal analysis.<br>In thermal calculation I can get some gains and loads as following:<br>1. in MONTHLY HEATING/COOLING LOADS, I can get the Max Heating/Cooling loads and the time<br>
2. in HOURLY GAINS I can choose the particular time in 1 and get the HVAC load<br>3. I can get fabric, direct solar.... gains at some particular time and then make a sum, so I get another gain<br><br>I thin there three gains or laods should be the same, but acturally they aren't. I am confused.<br>
<br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Chou Shen<br>Graduate Research Assistant<br>Department of Civil, Architectural & Environmental Engineering<br>Missouri University of Science and Technology<br><br><br><br>
<br><br>--Archivo adjunto de mensaje reenviado--<br>From: anne.moellenberndt@arup.com<br>To: bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br>Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 12:11:31 -0700<br>Subject: [Bldg-sim] Modeling to the MNECB in canada<br><br>
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</style><div class="ecxWordSection1"><p class="ecxMsoNormal">I’m looking for some feedback from anyone who has used EE4 and/or modeled a building against the MNECB 1997 in Canada.</p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"> </p><p class="ecxMsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in"><span style="">1.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span>How are the Energy Source Adjustment Factors used when modeling a building for LEED against the MNECB? It appears that these factors are meant to be multiplied by the total energy cost from each type of use. I see that at least in LEED Canada NC 1.0/1.1, the calculations for EQ p2 require 25% improvement in energy consumption (not cost) over MNECB. Presumably this requires use of the ESAF in that calculation. However, LEED also requires that calculations for energy savings are based on energy cost. When calculating energy costs, do you have to use the ESAF as well as the different utility rates? Or do you use the actual consumption (without using the ESAF) to figure the cost?</p><p class="ecxMsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in"><span style="">2.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span>The code appears to require use of baseline systems that completely mirror the proposed systems – boiler for boiler, chiller for chiller, multi-zone for multi-zone. How have others found ways to show significant energy savings given this constraint? The newer versions of ASHRAE allow comparison of a proposed ground-source heat pump system, for example, against a boiler heating baseline system, or a VAV system against a packaged system, depending on various factors. But the MNECB and ASHRAE 90.1-1999 don’t allow this. I am struggling to see how it would be possible to get more than 20-30% savings given these rules. </p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"> </p><p class="ecxMsoNormal">Thanks,</p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"> </p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#696EB4">Anne Marie Moellenberndt </span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#595959">PE LEED AP</span><b><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#696EB4"></span></b></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#595959">Senior Mechanical Engineer </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#595959"> </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#595959">Arup</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#595959"></span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#595959">403 Columbia Street Suite 220 Seattle WA 98104 </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#595959">t</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#595959"> +1 206 749 9674 <b>d</b> +1 206 493 2244 </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#595959">f</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#595959"> +1 206 749 0665 </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#595959"><a href="http://www.arup.com/" target="_blank"><span style="color:blue">www.arup.com</span></a></span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"> </p></div><font face="monospace">____________________________________________________________<br>
Electronic mail messages entering and leaving Arup business<br>
systems are scanned for acceptability of content and viruses</font><br><br>--Archivo adjunto de mensaje reenviado--<br>From: bfountain@greensim.com<br>To: bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org; anne.moellenberndt@arup.com<br>Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 15:50:30 -0400<br>Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Modeling to the MNECB in canada<br><br>
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Item 1 - the ESAF's are used in defining the reference building
envelope parameters -- that is why you must define the primary
heating source for each zone. In practise, you just use the energy
consumption & costs from EE4 to populate the LEED Canada letter
template. The ESAF's are not used in the EA-Cr 1 or EA Pr 2
calculations.<br>
<br>
Item 2 - your interpretation is not correct. There is a document
called the Performance Compliance for Buildings which defines the
reference building (automatically generated by EE4). Roughly
translated, the reference building has a single 80% efficient boiler
(if you have hydronic heating in the proposed building, it has 1 or
2 chillers (2 if your plant exceeds 700 tons) with a COP of 5.2.
There are 3 reference building types -- single zone, residential
(hotels, dorms etc) ... and everything else which has a VAV
reference system type. <br>
<br>
The MNECB is and old code very easy to beat. Standard design should
be 25% better than the MNECB (due mainly to lighting). Good HVAC
design (e.g. condensing boilers, dedicated OA systems and
ventilation heat recovery) can put you 50 to 60% better than the
MNECB. (My office is in a building >75% better than the MNECB,
but that is another story).<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 10/10/2011 3:11 PM, Anne M. Moellenberndt wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:1AF72AA22F6D1B4CBA603B402ED47F046FB5E30570@AMXEXC02.global.arup.com">
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<p class="ecxMsoNormal">I’m looking for some feedback from anyone
who has used EE4 and/or modeled a building against the MNECB
1997 in Canada.</p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="ecxMsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in"><span style="">1.<span style="font:7.0pt\00000d\00000a "Times New Roman""> </span></span>How
are the Energy Source Adjustment Factors used when modeling a
building for LEED against the MNECB? It appears that these
factors are meant to be multiplied by the total energy cost
from each type of use. I see that at least in LEED Canada NC
1.0/1.1, the calculations for EQ p2 require 25% improvement in
energy consumption (not cost) over MNECB. Presumably this
requires use of the ESAF in that calculation. However, LEED
also requires that calculations for energy savings are based
on energy cost. When calculating energy costs, do you have to
use the ESAF as well as the different utility rates? Or do you
use the actual consumption (without using the ESAF) to figure
the cost?</p>
<p class="ecxMsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in"><span style="">2.<span style="font:7.0pt\00000d\00000a "Times New Roman""> </span></span>The
code appears to require use of baseline systems that
completely mirror the proposed systems – boiler for boiler,
chiller for chiller, multi-zone for multi-zone. How have
others found ways to show significant energy savings given
this constraint? The newer versions of ASHRAE allow
comparison of a proposed ground-source heat pump system, for
example, against a boiler heating baseline system, or a VAV
system against a packaged system, depending on various
factors. But the MNECB and ASHRAE 90.1-1999 don’t allow
this. I am struggling to see how it would be possible to get
more than 20-30% savings given these rules. </p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal">Thanks,</p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Times New\00000d\00000a Roman","serif";color:#696EB4">Anne Marie
Moellenberndt </span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New\00000d\00000a Roman","serif";color:#595959">PE LEED AP</span><b><span style="font-family:"Times New\00000d\00000a Roman","serif";color:#696EB4"></span></b></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New\00000d\00000a Roman","serif";color:#595959">Senior
Mechanical Engineer </span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New\00000d\00000a Roman","serif";color:#595959"> </span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New\00000d\00000a Roman","serif";color:#595959">Arup</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New\00000d\00000a Roman","serif";color:#595959"></span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New\00000d\00000a Roman","serif";color:#595959">403 Columbia
Street Suite 220 Seattle WA 98104 </span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New\00000d\00000a Roman","serif";color:#595959">t</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New\00000d\00000a Roman","serif";color:#595959"> +1 206 749
9674 <b>d</b> +1 206 493 2244 </span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New\00000d\00000a Roman","serif";color:#595959">f</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New\00000d\00000a Roman","serif";color:#595959"> +1 206 749
0665 </span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New\00000d\00000a Roman","serif";color:#595959"><a href="http://www.arup.com/" target="_blank"><span style="color:blue">www.arup.com</span></a></span></p>
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