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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Giulio,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I am pretty sure you will ultimately find yourself frustrated if you try to find “typical” costs (construction or consumption) for specific building elements – as you may have gathered, the reality of energy cost breakdowns varies widely even within a specific building type – so averaged percentages between projects, even if found, may not be of much practical use. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>We can only speculate as to for whom you’re asking and why, but I expect you will find it much easier to cite/source construction and/or derive consumption costs of a <u>specific</u> envelope for a <u>specific</u> building, which you can then compare/contrast to the project you’re actually discussing to extrapolate expectations. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Ideally, a perfectly similar building would make for an easy comparison, but simply make a point to identify the major differences in the referenced building’s makeup/location/equipment/occupant usage so that you can factor the data to “fit” the project under discussion, as necessary.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>~Nick<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><img width=119 height=37 id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CC663B.F07D5130" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB"></span><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'>NICK CATON, P.E.</span></b><b><span style='font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#CC9900'>SENIOR ENGINEER<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#CC9900'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'>Smith & Boucher Engineers</span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'>25501 west valley parkway, suite 200<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'>olathe, ks 66061<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'>direct 913.344.0036<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'>fax 913.345.0617<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="www.smithboucher.com" title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue'> </span></u><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Giulio Castorina<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, August 27, 2011 9:31 AM<br><b>To:</b> Reba Schaber<br><b>Cc:</b> bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Building envelope average energy demands<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I see. <br>Do you dataset where I can I at least retrieve construction costs per building components? Such as a breakdown of Envelope/Energy Plant Facilities/Plumbing/Elevators etc..?<br><br>Il 27/08/2011 04:41, Reba Schaber ha scritto: <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>The graph/pie chart is not from ASHRAE 90.1. I believe the author is trying to show the energy savings of a building designed to the requirements of ASHRAE 90.1 as compared to a building not following energy savings design practices.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span></b><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span></b><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:red'>PH</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <u>MECHANICAL ENGINEERING<br></u> <b>Reba Schaber</b> Mechanical Engineer, P.E.<br> LEED Accredited Professional<br>1660 N. Alvernon Way Voice: (520) 731-2060<br>Tucson, Arizona 85712 Fax: (520) 731-2061<br> <u><a href="mailto:rschaber@phmech.com">rschaber@phmech.com</a></u></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [<a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Giulio Castorina<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 26, 2011 2:17 PM<br><b>To:</b> Goldwasser, David<br><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Building envelope average energy demands</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Hi All,<br><br>thank you all for your quick response. Actually I don't want to calculate that value, but just need to cite/reference a source that gives information about this data. <br><br>I found this <a href="http://www.sustainablefacility.com/articles/print/86593">http://www.sustainablefacility.com/articles/print/86593</a> where a graph is shown...but not really references fully. It says about ASHRAE Std 90 - I dont have access to this. Is this a chart inside the Do you know if it is inside the ASHRAE standards? <br><br>In particular I'm looking at expenditure through external vertical walls/windows - hence facades especially in office buildings.<br><br>Best<br><br>Giulio<br><br>Il 26/08/2011 23:06, Goldwasser, David ha scritto: <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Maybe not quite what you are looking for, but we have a video tutorial showing an envelope elimination parametric. In this example we used a full service restaurant but you can do this with any model. The approach is to run a baseline simulation and then to switch all exterior and ground exposed surfaces to an adiabatic boundary condition. Next remove all fenestration surfaces. Then re-run the model. Due to the load driven nature of this project the maximum savings through envelope improvements was just over 3%, but maybe would be 15-20% for an office. Of course it depends where the project is located; the harsher the climate, the more potential savings through envelope improvements. And it depends on the quality of the envelope that you use as a starting point; building activity, and mechanical system efficiency. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Here is a link to the video.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U91jeksOAw&list=PLF80F250937E2A648&index=38&feature=plpp">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U91jeksOAw&list=PLF80F250937E2A648&index=38&feature=plpp</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>And here is a link to COP adjusted end use graphs in Google Documents</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><a href="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhCALIzwiaGPdEI5ZHhaVmpfUHAtdGFDMjg5eW5tT1E&hl=en_US#gid=49">https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhCALIzwiaGPdEI5ZHhaVmpfUHAtdGFDMjg5eW5tT1E&hl=en_US#gid=49</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>This doesn’t mean that only 3% of the energy is due to the envelope, but it does show potential savings for retrofits on various elements. You could get more specific and just isolate the roof, or even solar gain from the windows. Or run create an elimination run for plug loads where you set loads to nothing.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>David</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>--</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>David Goldwasser, LEED AP</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>National Renewable Energy Laboratory</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color
-moz-use-text-color blue'><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;border-color:-moz-use-text-color'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [<a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>John Eurek<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 26, 2011 2:36 PM<br><b>To:</b> Giulio Castorina; <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Building envelope average energy demands</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white;background-attachment:scroll;background-position-x:0%;background-position-y:0%'>I don't know if this answers your question, but I have tried to determine the % of energy use due to the envelope on a recent building by running multiple energy models. What I found was the energy balance in complex.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white;background-attachment:scroll;background-position-x:0%;background-position-y:0%'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white;background-attachment:scroll;background-position-x:0%;background-position-y:0%'>An example is a perfect balance on a cold day <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white;background-attachment:scroll;background-position-x:0%;background-position-y:0%'>"People" + "Lighting" + "Plug Loads" - "Loss through Wall" = 0<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white;background-attachment:scroll;background-position-x:0%;background-position-y:0%'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white;background-attachment:scroll;background-position-x:0%;background-position-y:0%'>So if the insulation was higher, your loss though the wall would be less and the A/C power usage would be increased.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white;background-attachment:scroll;background-position-x:0%;background-position-y:0%'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white;background-attachment:scroll;background-position-x:0%;background-position-y:0%'>You could hand calculate the envelope energy demand for an empty unoccupied building, but with internal loads it gets foggy.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white;background-attachment:scroll;background-position-x:0%;background-position-y:0%'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white;background-attachment:scroll;background-position-x:0%;background-position-y:0%'>The energy model will show you what you can expect from various R-values, but I have not found a way to say x% of energy is due to the envelope.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white;background-attachment:scroll;background-position-x:0%;background-position-y:0%'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white;background-attachment:scroll;background-position-x:0%;background-position-y:0%'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Giulio Castorina <a href="mailto:artitecture@gmail.com"><artitecture@gmail.com></a><br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 26, 2011 2:52 PM<br><b>Subject:</b> [Bldg-sim] Building envelope average energy demands<br></span><br>Hi All,<br><br>Can anyone advise a good resource (article, webpage, book, etc..) which states what is the average energy demands (construction+running costs) due to Envelopes only in buildings? I would need just a figure in percentage over the whole energy demands of a typical office building. Is this data somehow available?<br><br>Best,<br><br>Giulio<br>_______________________________________________<br>Bldg-sim mailing list<br><a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org" target="_blank">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org</a><br>To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to <a href="mailto:BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG">BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG</a><br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><hr size=1 width="100%" noshade style='color:#ACA899' align=center></div><p class=avgcert>No virus found in this message.<br>Checked by AVG - <a href="http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</a><br>Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3859 - Release Date: 08/26/11<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>