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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Paul – I took the same approach, and my LEED reviewer shot it down. I didn’t explain it, though, so that may be why. Have you had success with a LEED review and your approach? If so, did you have to explain it or did you just provide the calcs that prove it? Thanks!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Paul Riemer [mailto:Paul.Riemer@dunhameng.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 16, 2011 9:38 AM<br><b>To:</b> 'Michael A. Eustice'; 'Jim Dirkes'; 'Anne Juran'; bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Bldg-sim] DOAS and baseline OA<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Michael alludes to the system ventilation efficiency (E_v). Per ASHRAE 62, It and the zone air distribution effectiveness (E_z) vary based on system configuration. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:2.25pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>When ASHRAE 90.1 says the minimum outdoor air must match I take that to mean the base R_p and R_a values not necessarily the resultant V_ot values. Similarly when LEED says DCV must be compared against the minimum ASHRAE values I take that to mean R_p and R_a values as well.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:2.25pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I assert that it is appropriate to calculate separate E_v and E_z values for the each system in baseline and proposed models, which can lead to ASHRAE 62 multi-zone calculations for the baseline systems.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#5F574F'>Paul Riemer, PE, LEED AP BD+C</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#5F574F'>Associate / Mechanical</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#C4262E'>DUNHAM</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#5F574F'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Michael A. Eustice<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 16, 2011 8:19 AM<br><b>To:</b> 'Jim Dirkes'; 'Anne Juran'; bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] DOAS and baseline OA<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>The critical zone fraction as explained by ASHRAE 62.1 will, in most cases, increase outside air intake in a VAV system. This is due to the need for the entire system to increase its outside air fraction if one zone’s airflow dips to its minimum VAV airflow. To maintain the ventilation fraction in the one zone that reduced airflow, the entire system ingests large amounts of outside air to make sure it gets enough air to that particular zone.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>It’s a bit more complicated than that, but that’s the simplest explanation. There are ways around it, but it takes time to ‘correct’ for small, high ventilation-fraction areas that tend to drive the system towards high ventilation rates when they modulate to minimum position.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Hope this makes sense.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Michael <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b>From:</b> bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jim Dirkes<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 16, 2011 9:12 AM<br><b>To:</b> 'Anne Juran'; bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] DOAS and baseline OA<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Dear Anne,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I’m not sure why you think the OA requirement varies by system. I’m not well versed in Standard 62, but my basic understanding is that one of the calculation methods is the result of building area and number of occupants. Those are unchanged by system selection … which is why it makes sense for Appendix G to require matching volumes.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal align=center style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-align:center'><b>The Building Performance Team<br>James V. Dirkes II, P.E., BEMP , LEED AP<br></b>1631 Acacia Drive NW<br>Grand Rapids, MI 49504<br>616 450 8653<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b>From:</b> bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Anne Juran<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 16, 2011 8:33 AM<br><b>To:</b> bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br><b>Subject:</b> [Bldg-sim] DOAS and baseline OA<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I’m curious how everyone is handling the OA for Appendix G simulations when using a DOAS in the proposed system. We have a design that is DOAS + FCU with a total OA of 8,000 CFM. When you run the OA calcs for this same building with a VAV system (the baseline), the total OA required to meet Standard 62 is 39,000 CFM. This difference in OA represents a significant energy savings (in climate zone 4A), yet Appendix G requires the OA volumes to match. It does not seem “fair” to me that the proposed case cannot take credit for design choice when it comes to OA. I feel like Appendix G should make an exception for DOAS. Am I missing something? Is there a way around this? Any thoughts are appreciated!<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Anne<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray'>The information contained in this message is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above. 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