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<p class=MsoNormal>Thanks so much for the suggestions!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>I myself have tread the “extensive, realistic fractional/thermostat
scheduling” path before under similar circumstances. Upon facing a
VERY large project, where the amount of explicit scheduling required for that
approach is compounded by the sheer quantity and variety of occupied spaces
benefiting from this relay setup, I am challenged with brainstorming any
acceptable (by LEED reviewer) means of approximating the same behavior/savings
by simplifying the problem…<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Here are some alternative ideas we’ve come up with so
far – I would very much appreciate others’ thoughts on these,
or any further related LEED/USGBC experiences to share as well:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='mso-list:Ignore'>1.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span><![endif]>90.1 already prescribes how we quantify the savings of
occupancy sensors for installed lighting (10 or 15% flat deduction on the
LPD). Rather than define & justify the quantity and timing of
unoccupied hours between varying space types (murky waters at best), one could instead
reduce the loads incident on the affected systems by the same percentage.
This might be accomplished by applying this 10/15% deduction to the affected spaces’
fractional load schedules (occupancy, equipment & lighting). One
would need to tread carefully to avoid “double-dipping” on any
spaces already claiming a LPD deduction for occupancy sensors. Baseline
model’s schedules would remain unaffected and would be documented alongside
the modified ones to illustrate the difference. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='mso-list:Ignore'>2.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span><![endif]>(Simpler to model, but requiring slightly more
documentation): Let’s say a hospital has an annual average of 85% occupancy
for all its patient rooms. Treating every other room normally, select a
representative sampling (considering envelope loads) of 15% of the patient
rooms. Model those selected rooms as “empty” (set people, lights
and equipment loads = 0) but still conditioned to maintain the thermostat setpoint
(against loads incident from the envelope & neighboring spaces). Apply the
0% minimum turndown behavior to those “empty” rooms only.
Baseline model would receive identical treatments, excepting the 0% turndown
behavior. Documentation would include illustrating which zones were
sampled against the others, and justification for the net annual “occupancy
rate” used for each space type.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>I have mixed feelings – obviously any simplification
of the problem has the potential to under/overstate the savings that might be
found with a more exhaustive scheduling approach, but may result in as good or
even a better estimation provided with solid documentation and execution.
Does anyone think the above approaches could work well, or have any suggestions
to refine the strategies? <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Thanks again!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>~Nick<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><img width=119 height=37 id="Picture_x0020_1"
src="cid:image001.jpg@01CC46BA.BB8B1F20" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB"><b><span
style='font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>NICK CATON, P.E.</span></b><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900'>SENIOR ENGINEER<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>Smith &
Boucher Engineers</span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:#CC9900'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>25501 west
valley parkway, suite 200<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>olathe, ks
66061<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>direct
913.344.0036<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>fax
913.345.0617<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><a href="www.smithboucher.com"
title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:blue'>www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:blue'> </span></u><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>-----Original Message-----<br>
From: James Hansen [mailto:JHANSEN@ghtltd.com] <br>
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 8:40 AM<br>
To: Eurek, John S NWO; Nick Caton; bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
Subject: RE: [Bldg-sim] How have you approached... (UNCLASSIFIED)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I agree with John, I've done this on a model before and
its painful. Assuming there are 10 hours in a work day, I set up 10
different occupancy and lighting schedules, each schedule being essentially
identical except for a different hour of zero occupancy / lighting. I
then applied these 10 schedules to the different office zones on a floor so
that specific areas were vacant from 8am-9am, some vacant from 9am-10am, etc.
And then for my system, I assumed relatively consistent 10% non-occupied
conditions and reduced the OA at the system level accordingly. If your
non-occupied conditions are more drastic (30%), obviously you can set up your
schedules differently.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>However, if your primary air is also cooling (and not
some sort of DOAS chilled water VAV box), then you are going to also have to
specify 10 separate thermostat schedules (really 20 with heating and cooling)
so that the rooms do not have unmet load hours. I'm assuming you go into
setback mode when the offices are unoccupied.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>However, this was under v2.0, so that was a long time ago
and reviewers were not as critical in their reviews.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>GHT Limited<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>James Hansen, P.E., LEED AP<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Senior Associate<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>1010 N. Glebe Road, Suite 200<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Arlington, VA 22201-4749<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>703-243-1200 (office)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>703-338-5754 (cell)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>703-276-1376 (fax)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>www.ghtltd.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Eurek, John S NWO<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 9:31 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: Nick Caton; bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] How have you approached...
(UNCLASSIFIED)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Classification: UNCLASSIFIED<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Caveats: NONE<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Nick,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I would do it with schedules. This would be the
long method.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I have the same controls and have not got around to model
it. I would also<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>make many schedules. A different schedule for
occupancy, lights, equipment,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>ect. Also if this applies to a lot of rooms, you'd
likely make multiple<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>schedules, one assuming that the room is empty from 9~10
another room empty<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>from 2~3. (The inverse for meeting rooms, if you
have multiple meeting<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>rooms, not all meetings will happen at the same time.)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>"Is Freedom a small price to pay to stop Global
Warming?"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>John Eurek PE, LEED AP<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Mechanical Engineer,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf
Of Nick Caton<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 3:59 PM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: [Bldg-sim] How have you approached...<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I have a precedent question for everyone... this is not a
"how to" procedural<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>question for any particular software, but to simply feel
out what has worked<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>for others in the past:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Here's a quick description of the situation
at-hand: a VAV terminal unit<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>with a "normal" minimum damper position (say,
30%) is tied by relay to the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>space occupancy sensor, which also controls the
lights. Upon sensing space<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>vacancy, the minimum airflow damper position is reset to
0% (airflow is<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>permitted to stop, provided thermostat temperature set
point is satisfied).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Upon sensing occupancy, the preset minimum damper
position is restored.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>For LEED/USGBC-reviewed energy models, can anyone relate
success in modeling<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>this or a similar energy-saving behavior in the proposed
model, distinct from<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>the baseline? If so, what approach did you use to
model this behavior and/or<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>quantify the energy savings? <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I was discussing the possibilities with some colleagues
and have a few ideas<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>for approaches that might all be justifiable, ranging
from simple (and quick)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>to complex (and time-consuming). <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>There are likely multiple "right" answers here,
but I am hoping to identify<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>some precedent to understand what we can anticipate the
LEED reviewership<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>will accept. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Thanks in advance!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>~Nick<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>NICK CATON, P.E.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>SENIOR ENGINEER<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Smith & Boucher Engineers<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>25501 west valley parkway, suite 200<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>olathe, ks 66061<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>direct 913.344.0036<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>fax 913.345.0617<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>www.smithboucher.com <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Classification: UNCLASSIFIED<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Caveats: NONE<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
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