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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Hi Karen,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I certainly agree that the enforcement of the requirements
should be flexible. The difficulty we face is related to the review of the
documentation submitted. Individual subjectivity in the review process can
sometimes lead to inconsistency, so the more flexible, the more subjective.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Appreciate the feedback.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:green'>Marcus Sheffer</span><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:green'>Energy Opportunities, Inc/a 7group Company</span><span
style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>1200 E Camping Area Road, Wellsville, PA 17365</span><span
style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>717-292-2636, </span><span style='color:#1F497D'><a
href="mailto:sheffer@sevengroup.com"><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"'>sheffer@sevengroup.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.sevengroup.com">www.sevengroup.com</a></span><span
style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Karen Walkerman
[mailto:kwalkerman@gmail.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 16, 2011 11:41 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Marcus Sheffer<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Hussein Abaza; bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Energy Model Cost - best design doesn'tequalmost
LEED points<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Hi Marcus,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Thanks for asking us for our feedback. I welcome this
opportunity to give you some information regarding my experience as a LEED
modeler and some ideas I have for making the modeling part more useful.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Many of the LEED projects I work on do not use LEED as a
design tool. For these projects, even though my initial proposal includes
schematic design and design development modeling, I am usually asked to
complete only the final LEED model and LEED model documentation, ie
"please do only what is required for LEED." This means that the
modeling tool is not being used to make design decisions.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>I like that the new EA C1 language talks about using energy
modeling to inform design decisions, and I think that it would be helpful to
engage this list-serve to determine the best way to bring that goal into the
LEED requirements. One thing that comes to mind is that I use many tools
during design development phase energy modeling. Often, I'll complete
thermal modeling of building envelope details in order to help the architect
reach achieve a higher overall R-value for envelope constructions. While
not a whole-building energy analysis, this is often one of the most
illuminating discussions I have with architects. Often I will run a
simple model with R-20, R-30 and R-40 walls, we'll look at overall energy use
differences and the engineer will look at benefits to system sizing and then
the major conversation is: how do we construct the building so that we actually
achieve an overall R-value that meets our goals, not just in the center of the
wall.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Sometimes I prepare a detailed report for model
alternatives, the best results come from sitting down with the design team,
running a number of alternatives and viewing and discussing results all at the
same time. The LEED documentation requirement for this portion of the
credit should be similarly flexible. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Thanks for your time,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>--<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Karen<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 8:50 PM, Marcus Sheffer <<a
href="mailto:sheffer@energyopportunities.com" target="_blank">sheffer@energyopportunities.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Yes I think it is the same study which
showed LEED buildings were 25% to 30% more energy efficient than average.
There was considerable debate about the interpretation of the data.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>The purpose of my post was how do we get
folks to use modeling on LEED project to make them more energy efficient.
Some folks just complain about LEED without offering a better
alternative. USGBC is seeking your good ideas to make it better, more
useful and effective.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:green'>Marcus Sheffer</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:green'>Energy Opportunities, Inc/a 7group Company</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#1F497D'>1200 E Camping Area Road, Wellsville,
PA 17365</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#1F497D'><a href="tel:717-292-2636" target="_blank">717-292-2636</a>,
</span><span style='color:#1F497D'><a href="mailto:sheffer@sevengroup.com"
target="_blank"><span style='font-size:7.5pt'>sheffer@sevengroup.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.sevengroup.com"
target="_blank">www.sevengroup.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>
Hussein Abaza [mailto:<a href="mailto:ahussein@spsu.edu" target="_blank">ahussein@spsu.edu</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, May 14, 2011 8:47 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Marcus Sheffer</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Energy Model Cost - best
design doesn'tequalmost LEED points <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span
style='color:#000099'>There is a famous study ( I don't recall the link to it)
which shows that almost 50% of LEED buildings consume as much and more energy
than non LEED buildings. <br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: "Marcus Sheffer" <<a
href="mailto:sheffer@energyopportunities.com" target="_blank">sheffer@energyopportunities.com</a>><br>
To: "Julia Beabout" <<a href="mailto:juliabeabout@yahoo.com"
target="_blank">juliabeabout@yahoo.com</a>>, "Nick Caton" <<a
href="mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com" target="_blank">ncaton@smithboucher.com</a>>,
"Hussein Abaza" <<a href="mailto:ahussein@spsu.edu" target="_blank">ahussein@spsu.edu</a>>,
"Bill Bishop" <<a href="mailto:wbishop@pathfinder-ea.com"
target="_blank">wbishop@pathfinder-ea.com</a>><br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 4:36:22 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern<br>
Subject: RE: [Bldg-sim] Energy Model Cost - best design doesn'tequalmost LEED
points<br>
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>The primary purpose is to get the
conversation started, early. It is an opportunity to educate the owner
and the team about energy. In my experience the majority of designers
can’t even tell you the metric for comparing building energy consumption.
I have often had this conversation early in the project design and have been
met with blank stares. It is incumbent upon us who do understand these
energy issues to get the conversation started. Caveat the heck out of the
goal, explain the limitations, discuss the relative vs absolute metrics, be
open about the issues – so that we can raise awareness one conversation at a
time. This is the power of a market transformation tool like LEED.
It enables us to have these conversations.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I agree that both of these items are
potential issues, talk to your clients about them. If you don’t have a
goal, how do you measure success?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:green'>Marcus Sheffer</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:green'>Energy Opportunities, Inc/a 7group Company</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#1F497D'>1200 E Camping Area Road, Wellsville,
PA 17365</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#1F497D'><a href="tel:717-292-2636" target="_blank">717-292-2636</a>,
</span><span style='color:#1F497D'><a href="mailto:sheffer@sevengroup.com"
target="_blank"><span style='font-size:7.5pt'>sheffer@sevengroup.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.sevengroup.com"
target="_blank">www.sevengroup.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#000099'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;color:#000099'> Julia Beabout [mailto:<a
href="mailto:juliabeabout@yahoo.com" target="_blank">juliabeabout@yahoo.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, May 14, 2011 9:57 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Marcus Sheffer; Nick Caton; Hussein Abaza; Bill Bishop<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Energy Model Cost - best design doesn'tequalmost
LEED points</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#000099'>While I conceptually agree with and
understand the kbtu or watts/sf approach, to me, there seems to be some series
issues with it in reality.<br>
<br>
First, I don't agree that generating or coming up with appropriate target
values during design is always (or even frequently) an easy thing to do or easy
data to find. It depends on your bldg type. I do a lot of labs and
hospitals. Manufacturing and industrial use bldgs can have the same
issues. Good EUI data is not easy to come by for these bldg types -
partly because the user equipment that is installed in them can be a big
portion of the energy demand and consumption and it's always changing and can
be very specific to each client. For example: is it a community hosptial
with more modest and generic care provide?....a state of the art hospital with
specialized care functions?....does the lab have primarily biology or a
chemistry functions....etc etc. These things all affect the EUI. In
my opinion, the best resource for this data is actually utility companies based
on data from similar customers, but that data is not generally publicly
available and/or the population of similar comparable buildings may be small
and difficult to relate to your bldg. <br>
<br>
Second, quite frankly, in my opinion, DESIGN phase energy models are poor
predictors of ACTUAL bldg energy use. They are best at predicting
RELATIVE (comparative) energy use. This is not because the tools are not
good or inaccurate but because we and the owners are so poor at predicting how
the bldg will actually be used, weather, etc. One additional factor, is
what equipment will actually be installed. It's not uncommon for the
technology to have changed bewteen the time that we start design and the time
the equipment is actually purchased closer to the end of construction.
All these things effect not only the equipment w/sf usage but the ac w/sf usage
etc. So, there seems to me to be a serious disconnect to me if we
talking about setting energy targets during DESIGNbased on statistical data of
ACTUAL energy use and trying to use those figure during the design phase for
predicted energy use. Again, I love the idea but are we really there yet
in reality. It seems to me we need a lot more data that doesn't exist yet
- and mechanism to collect that data. (CBECS etc are good, but the
population and variability for bldgs of these types has a long way to go).<br>
<br>
I missing something about what's being proposed/talked about?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#000099'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#000099'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#000099'>
<hr size=1 width="100%" align=center>
</span></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#000099'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;color:#000099'> Marcus Sheffer <<a
href="mailto:sheffer@energyopportunities.com" target="_blank">sheffer@energyopportunities.com</a>><br>
<b>To:</b> Nick Caton <<a href="mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com"
target="_blank">ncaton@smithboucher.com</a>>; Hussein Abaza <<a
href="mailto:ahussein@spsu.edu" target="_blank">ahussein@spsu.edu</a>>; Bill
Bishop <<a href="mailto:wbishop@pathfinder-ea.com" target="_blank">wbishop@pathfinder-ea.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Fri, May 13, 2011 7:01:25 PM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Energy Model Cost - best design doesn'tequalmost
LEED points</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>First of all the goal is not at all
arbitrary but must be based on an expected outcome within a reasonable
expectation. It is informed by data from similar, actual building energy
consumption. I don’t think I need to explain the tools one can use to do
this.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Your goal (do the best you can) sounds
like, “let’s build an energy efficient building”. This is
meaningless. Energy efficiency in the context of new construction is
always relative and without a quantification of what energy efficient means
this is no goal at all.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Like any early stage performance goal
the number is adjustable as more is discovered in the design process. If
the target is later discovered to be unreasonable due to a wide range of
potential issues, then the target is adjusted.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>If you pick your EUI goal the way you
describe then yes this is a worthless goal but the key point is that it is
never selected arbitrarily. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:green'>Marcus Sheffer</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:green'>Energy Opportunities, Inc/a 7group Company</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#1F497D'>1200 E Camping Area Road, Wellsville,
PA 17365</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#1F497D'><a href="tel:717-292-2636" target="_blank">717-292-2636</a>,
</span><span style='color:#1F497D'><a href="mailto:sheffer@sevengroup.com"
target="_blank"><span style='font-size:7.5pt'>sheffer@sevengroup.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.sevengroup.com"
target="_blank">www.sevengroup.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#000099'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;color:#000099'> Nick Caton [mailto:<a
href="mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com" target="_blank">ncaton@smithboucher.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 13, 2011 6:17 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Marcus Sheffer; Hussein Abaza; Bill Bishop<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Bldg-sim] Energy Model Cost - best design doesn'tequalmost
LEED points</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Not to be a jerk, but to ask an honest
question: what is the point? I’ve been involved with “established energy
target” projects and never really picked up on the logic behind it – I would
appreciate a layman’s explanation.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Put another way: If you select an
arbitrary EUI or watts per square foot at the earliest stages of design, what
have you gained in design process? If/when a project “meets the goal”
mid-design, are future design decisions supposed to de-emphasize energy impact
(no!)? If on the other hand, a project finds that target unreasonable
down the road, what then? </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Not setting a mile-marker like this
implies designing the best building you can given the time/budget available and
any other constraints… that seems more likely to result in the best end-result
to me.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>To draw analogy, if design of a LEED (or
any energy-conscious) project is like planning a road trip from Kansas to Florida,
setting EUI goals seems something like choosing a rest stop by throwing a dart
at the map blindfolded. It doesn’t help you get to your destination any
more efficiently, it may be far out of the way, and now you’ve got a hole in
the wall… what was the point?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Okay, maybe a weak analogy – chalking it
up to a very long week =). Honestly, I’d appreciate someone laying the
value behind this approach – I’m expect the logic does exist, and I just
haven’t yet seen the light!</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>~Nick</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><img border=0 width=119 height=37
id="_x0000_i1026"
src="https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&ik=f241c1e956&view=att&th=12ff8d8d09e6f05d&attid=0.1&disp=emb&realattid=f93f6cb2b25a4046_0.0.1&zw"
alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB"></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>NICK CATON, E.I.T.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900'>PROJECT ENGINEER</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>Smith & Boucher Engineers</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>25501 west valley parkway</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>olathe ks 66061</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>direct <a href="tel:913%20344.0036"
target="_blank">913 344.0036</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>fax <a href="tel:913%20345.0617"
target="_blank">913 345.0617</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.smithboucher.com"
target="_blank">www.smithboucher.com</a></span><u><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:blue'> </span></u><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#000099'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;color:#000099'> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org"
target="_blank">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [mailto:<a
href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Marcus Sheffer<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 13, 2011 4:36 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Hussein Abaza'; Bill Bishop<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Energy Model Cost - best design doesn'tequalmost
LEED points</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Agreed. The new credit language
for the next version of LEED does ask project teams to establish an absolute
performance goal.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:green'>Marcus Sheffer</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:green'>Energy Opportunities, Inc/a 7group Company</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#1F497D'>1200 E Camping Area Road, Wellsville,
PA 17365</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#1F497D'><a href="tel:717-292-2636" target="_blank">717-292-2636</a>,
</span><span style='color:#1F497D'><a href="mailto:sheffer@sevengroup.com"
target="_blank"><span style='font-size:7.5pt'>sheffer@sevengroup.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.sevengroup.com"
target="_blank">www.sevengroup.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#000099'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;color:#000099'> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org"
target="_blank">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [mailto:<a
href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Hussein Abaza<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 13, 2011 10:15 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Bill Bishop<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Energy Model Cost - best design doesn't
equalmost LEED points</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span
style='color:#000099'>Could any one advice why LEED would not put the base
design as Watt per square foot, or per occupant, or per hotel bed etc. so the
Architecture becomes more innovative early in the design to save energy?<br>
<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: "Bill Bishop" <<a href="mailto:wbishop@pathfinder-ea.com"
target="_blank">wbishop@pathfinder-ea.com</a>><br>
To: "Arpan Bakshi" <<a href="mailto:arpanbakshi@gmail.com"
target="_blank">arpanbakshi@gmail.com</a>><br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 10:11:30 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern<br>
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Energy Model Cost - best design doesn't equal
most LEED points</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Arpan,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Based on the Weidt Group paper, I’m
guessing you’re emphasizing architectural considerations that affect the energy
cost vs. LEED points numbers. (The paper uses window-to-wall ratios and
daylighting as an example.) I would think the goal during the programming and
schematic design phases should be energy cost, not LEED points relative to the
App. G baseline. Much of the energy cost savings vs. App. G baseline (EAc1
points) is going to come later from the mechanical and lighting designs. The
suggestions in the paper to establish specific baseline building shapes and
glazing percentages would add a LOT more modeling time – you’d have to create
two separate building geometries for the baseline and proposed models, not to
mention different zoning patterns, space types, lighting power per space etc.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>For mechanical design, once the size and
programming of the project is established, the baseline model properties are
pretty well set, unless you consider fuel-switching and go between baseline
systems 1/3/5/7 to systems 2/4/6/8. One exception I can think of for a design
decision that results in higher energy cost but better comparison with the App.
G baseline is higher ventilation rates combined with heat recovery in the
proposed and no heat recovery in the baseline.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Bill</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><img border=0 width=496 height=123
id="_x0000_i1027"
src="https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&ik=f241c1e956&view=att&th=12ff8d8d09e6f05d&attid=0.2&disp=emb&realattid=f93f6cb2b25a4046_0.0.2&zw"
alt="Signature in jpg form"></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#000099'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;color:#000099'> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org"
target="_blank">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [mailto:<a
href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Arpan Bakshi<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 13, 2011 9:09 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:sheffer@energyopportunities.com" target="_blank">sheffer@energyopportunities.com</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <<a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Energy Model Cost</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'>Marcus, thank you incorporating this language.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span
style='color:#000099'>The one scenario we often see in our design guidance work
is that a proposed design when compared with other design alternates does not
necessarily provided the largest energy savings when compared against its own
baseline case model. It is difficult to make a recommendation as consultants when
we want to present the Owner with both real energy cost savings without
compromising their LEED certification level targets. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'>A recent paper presented by the Weidt Group at SimBuild
touched on this issue:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'><a
href="http://www.ibpsa.us/pub/simbuild2010/technicalPresentations/SB10-PPT-TS02A-03-Baker.pdf"
target="_blank">http://www.ibpsa.us/pub/simbuild2010/technicalPresentations/SB10-PPT-TS02A-03-Baker.pdf</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span
style='color:#000099'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'>Arpan Bakshi, LEED AP BD+C</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'>YRG sustainability</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span
style='color:#000099'><br>
On May 13, 2011, at 8:16 AM, "Marcus Sheffer" <<a
href="mailto:sheffer@energyopportunities.com" target="_blank">sheffer@energyopportunities.com</a>>
wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>If anyone has any good ideas about how
to structure the LEED credits to end the practice of validation models at the
end and encourage/require design phase modeling the folks on the USGBC EA TAG
would love to hear them. The current proposed credit language from the
first public comment phase is listed below.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#76923C'>NC, CS, SCHOOLS, RETAIL, WAREHOUSE &
DISTRIBUTION CENTERS, HOSPITALITY</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#76923C'>Establish an energy performance target
no later than the schematic design phase. The target must be established as
kBTU per square foot-year of source energy use. This target must be mapped on
the same scale as the baseline and proposed buildings, if the project follows
Option 1.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#76923C'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#76923C'>OPTION 1. Whole Building Energy
Simulation </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#76923C'>Analyze a minimum of at least nine
efficiency measures during the design process and account for the results in
design decision-making. Analysis can include energy simulation of efficiency
opportunities, application of past energy simulation analyses for similar
projects to the project, or application of published data from energy analyses
performed for similar projects to the project (such as AEDGs).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#76923C'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#76923C'>A minimum of six energy efficiency
measures focused on load reduction strategies appropriate for the facility must
be analyzed. This analysis must be performed during the schematic design phase.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#76923C'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#76923C'>A minimum of three energy efficiency
measures focused on HVAC related strategies must be analyzed (passive measures
are acceptable). This analysis must be performed before the conclusion of the
design development phase.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#76923C'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#76923C'>The results of the analysis must be
summarized in a brief report or memorandum.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>The next version of LEED will be going
out for public comment again in July, I think, so please comment formally as
well as discussing here.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:green'>Marcus Sheffer</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:green'>Energy Opportunities, Inc/a 7group Company</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#1F497D'>1200 E Camping Area Road, Wellsville,
PA 17365</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#1F497D'><a href="tel:717-292-2636" target="_blank">717-292-2636</a>,
</span><span style='color:#1F497D'><a href="mailto:sheffer@sevengroup.com"
target="_blank"><span style='font-size:7.5pt'>sheffer@sevengroup.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.sevengroup.com"
target="_blank">www.sevengroup.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#000099'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;color:#000099'> John Aulbach [mailto:<a href="mailto:jra_sac@yahoo.com"
target="_blank">jra_sac@yahoo.com</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 12, 2011 7:46 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Carol Gardner; Marcus Sheffer<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Energy Model Cost</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'>OK, Carol..now you threw the "bait" out
there..older than dirt, eh?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'>I have done very limited LEED "type" modeling
where you compare 20 walls and 40 windows types (well, it seemed that
way). Correct me if I am wrong, but a Base model must be built to comply
with a certain level of ASHRAE 90.1 (now up to 2010 ??). With all of the
nuisances of eQuest 3.64, I am going to build the model from scrathc and put in
all the relevant baseline data in by hand. And, by the way, the ASHRAE
baseline model might be an entirely different system. I am just
completing an EPACT evaluation (ASHRAE 90.1-2001) and the Baseline HVAC was
screwe chillers, whereas the Actual building was packaged units with Turbocor
compressors (ask me how I did that).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'>It very much depends on the complexity of the building. A
40,000 sf office or a 500,000 sf hotel with casino facilites.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'>I am unfamiliar with the LEED paperwork to be filled out
after the modeling has been done. But I would not do anything of this type in
under 120 hours, preferably 160 hours. If the client thinks he can do better,
let him.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'>Contingency, contingency.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'>We won't discuss how old CAROL might be..</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'>John A.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#000099'>
<hr size=1 width="100%" align=center>
</span></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#000099'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;color:#000099'> Carol Gardner <<a href="mailto:cmg750@gmail.com"
target="_blank">cmg750@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:sheffer@energyopportunities.com" target="_blank">sheffer@energyopportunities.com</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thu, May 12, 2011 2:59:12 PM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Energy Model Cost<br>
</span><span style='color:#000099'><br>
Marcus,<br>
<br>
You have inadvertently hit upon why IBPSA worked with ASHRAE to create a BEMP
certification. That's Building Energy Modeling Professional (BEMP). <br>
<br>
Some of us who have been in the field for awhile began to worry a couple of
years ago when so many new energy modelers began appearing on the listserv with
questions. Their questions indicated a lack of training and experience that was
worrisome. What made it worrisome was that they didn't seem to realize that
they were as inexperienced as they were; they didn't appear to be pursuing
training to learn how to do what they were doing; and we were uncertain as to
how or if they were practicing quality control. We hoped that by creating a
path to certification that we would give clients one more qualification to look
for in their modelers.<br>
<br>
If you have been in this industry for any length of time, and by industry I
mean the overall construction industry, you know that you don't get a lot of
chances if your work doesn't pan out. If your energy model says I have a LEED
Gold building and I'm going to save $4,000/year and what I really get is LEED
Silver and $1,000/year, I am not going to be happy. So, I will probably not
give you any more work but, even worse for all of us, I'll start expressing
doubts about the whole process. LEED - what is it good for?<br>
<br>
So, now we all have more training, right? We read our ASHRAE Handbooks and
technical manuals so we know how to model the difficult stuff. We can find any
topic in the DOE2 Manuals, all of which are one line, available, and easily
searchable. <br>
<br>
So now we are so good we can do these models in 40-80 hours. Really? Not me and
I've been doing it longer than everyone, except you, John Aulbach. So I'm going
to join Marcus in his rant because he's on to something.<br>
<br>
It's up to us to not under bid this work. It's up to us to educate our clients
about the importance of quality in this process. If they think they are getting
the same analysis in 40 hours that they used to get in 120 hours, they need to
be led around to rethinking that and to be reminded that GIGO.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
Carol<br>
<br>
<br>
Thu, May 12, 2011 at 2:31 PM, Marcus Sheffer <<a
href="mailto:sheffer@energyopportunities.com" target="_blank">sheffer@energyopportunities.com</a>>
wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'>In our experience a final model, done right, would take
about 80 hours.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'>WARNING – frustrated modeling rant to follow:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'>Doing just a final model however completely misses the
point as to why we model – it is to guide design decisions! </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'>If I saw this RFP and all it asked me for was a model to
determine LEED points, during or after design, I would try to educate the
potential client about the purpose of modeling.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'>Unfortunately too many projects pursuing LEED are only
doing the minimum when it comes to modeling and almost completely missing all
the benefits. Too often the “market” transforms only based on a least
first cost denominator basis that results in little real transformation.
Doing models to determine LEED points does not transform the market, save any
energy, and just circumvents the purpose behind LEED. (the next version
actually requires design phase modeling!)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'>Any “modeler” who does only final models without
attempting to explain to the owner why this is a bad idea should be “drummed
out of the corp” in my humble opinion.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'>The problem is that if you respond to this RFP with 120
or 160 or more hours to really do the design phase modeling right, you will go
up against the “modeler” who claims to be able to do it in far less time.
So how do we get the folks who issue the RFPs to ask for a proper scope of work
so that they can compare fees on a level playing field? It is unfortunate
that we are even having a discussion about doing modeling work in opposition to
its purpose.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'>Sorry for the rant but I feel better now. </span><span
style='font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'>J</span><span style='color:#1F497D'>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:green'>Marcus Sheffer</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:green'>Energy Opportunities, Inc/a 7group Company</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#1F497D'>1200 E Camping Area Road, Wellsville,
PA 17365</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#1F497D'><a href="tel:717-292-2636" target="_blank">717-292-2636</a>,
</span><span style='color:#1F497D'><a href="mailto:sheffer@sevengroup.com"
target="_blank"><span style='font-size:7.5pt'>sheffer@sevengroup.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.sevengroup.com"
target="_blank">www.sevengroup.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#000099'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;color:#000099'> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org"
target="_blank">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [mailto:<a
href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Demba Ndiaye<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 12, 2011 4:28 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Omar Delgado; <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org"
target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Energy Model Cost</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'>Omar,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'>I would expect, for a building this size, approximately
40 hours (multiply by your hourly rate). The 40 hours include EAp2/EAc1 LEED
documentation, and any review you may have to respond to later.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'>Now, given that you have never done a LEED model, it will
take you more time, possibly up to 40 more hours.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'>HTH,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'>_______________</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'>Demba NDIAYE</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#000099'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;color:#000099'> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org"
target="_blank">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [mailto:<a
href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Omar Delgado<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 12, 2011 7:08 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Bldg-sim] Energy Model Cost</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'>Greetings everyone,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'>I have a question regarding the cost of an energy model
for a LEED project. Every energy model I've done so far has been for </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'>existing buildings, mainly for optimization purposes.
However, I received an RFP to model a five-story, 41,500 sq. ft. building</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'>that's currently on the design phase and is pursuing the
LEED-NC Silver certification. I really have no idea what would be a fair </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'>price for this model since I'm going to have to use
Appendix G (ASHRAE 90.1) to evaluate the difference between the base </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'>and proposed buildings. I don't know how much extra
effort this will take. I know the procedure, just haven't done it before.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'>Can you shed any light on this issue?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'>Thanks in advance!</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><i><span
lang=ES-PR style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Papyrus;color:#000099'>Omar A.
Delgado Colón, P.E., MEnvM., LEED AP BD&C</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><i><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Papyrus;color:#000099'>Vice President</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='color:#FF8000'>Ener</span><span style='color:#000099'>Mech</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#000099'>PMB 340</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#000099'>130 Winston Churchill Ave.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
lang=ES-PR style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#000099'>San Juan, PR 00926-6018</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
lang=ES-PR style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#000099'>Cel. <a
href="tel:%28787%29%20224-6537" target="_blank">(787) 224-6537</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
lang=ES-PR style='color:#000099'><a href="mailto:odelgado@enermechpr.com"
target="_blank">odelgado@enermechpr.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
lang=ES-PR style='color:#000099'><a href="mailto:info@enermechpr.com"
target="_blank">info@enermechpr.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'><a href="http://www.enermechpr.com/" target="_blank"><span
lang=ES-PR>www.enermechpr.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
lang=ES-PR style='color:#000099'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
lang=ES-PR style='color:#000099'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
lang=ES-PR style='color:#000099'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:8.0pt;color:#74B230'><image001.gif> <i>Please
consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail</i></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span
style='font-size:8.0pt;color:#1F497D'>This Email is covered by the Electronics
Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Sections 2510-2521 and is legally
priviliged. The information in this email is personal and confidential and is
intended solely for the addressee(s). Access to this email by anyone else is
unauthorized. If you are not an intended recipient, you must not read, use or
disseminate the information contained in the email. Any views expressed in this
message are those of the individual sender and may be subject to
Attorney/Client privilege and/or Work Product. You are hereby notified that any
dissemination, distribution or copying of this communications is strictly
prohibited.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span
style='color:#000099'><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'><br>
<br clear=all>
<br>
-- <br>
Carol Gardner PE</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'>_______________________________________________<br>
Bldg-sim mailing list<br>
<a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org"
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</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'><br>
_______________________________________________ Bldg-sim mailing list <a
href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org"
target="_blank">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org</a>
To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to <a
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<br>
<br>
-- </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#006600'>Dr. Hussein Abaza, Assistant
Professor</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#006600'>Construction Management
Department </span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#006600'>SCHOOL OF ARCHITECTURE’</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#006600'>CIVIL ENGINEERING TECHNOLOGY</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#006600'> And CONSTRUCTION</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:8.0pt;color:black'>1100 South Marietta Parkway,
Marietta, GA 30060-2896</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:8.0pt;color:black'>Website: </span><span
style='font-size:8.0pt;color:#000099'><a href="http://www.spsu.edu/cost"
target="_blank">www.spsu.edu/cost</a></span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;
color:black'> Tel: <a href="tel:678-915-3719" target="_blank">678-915-3719</a>
Fax: <a href="tel:678-915-4966" target="_blank">678-915-4966</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:8.0pt;color:black'>E-mail: <a
href="mailto:ahussein@spsu.edu" target="_blank">ahussein@spsu.edu</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='color:#000099'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'><br>
<br>
-- </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#006600'>Dr. Hussein Abaza, Assistant
Professor</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#006600'>Construction Management
Department </span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#006600'>SCHOOL OF ARCHITECTURE’</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#006600'>CIVIL ENGINEERING TECHNOLOGY</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#006600'> And CONSTRUCTION</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:8.0pt;color:black'>1100 South Marietta Parkway,
Marietta, GA 30060-2896</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:8.0pt;color:black'>Website: </span><span
style='font-size:8.0pt;color:#000099'><a href="http://www.spsu.edu/cost"
target="_blank">www.spsu.edu/cost</a></span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;
color:black'> Tel: <a href="tel:678-915-3719" target="_blank">678-915-3719</a>
Fax: <a href="tel:678-915-4966" target="_blank">678-915-4966</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:8.0pt;color:black'>E-mail: <a
href="mailto:ahussein@spsu.edu" target="_blank">ahussein@spsu.edu</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='color:#000099'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#000099'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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href="mailto:BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG" target="_blank">BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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