<html><head><style type='text/css'>p { margin: 0; }</style></head><body><div style='font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #000099'>Could any one advice why LEED would not put the base design as Watt per square foot, or per occupant, or per hotel bed etc. so the Architecture becomes more innovative early in the design to save energy?<br><br>----- Original Message -----<br>From: "Bill Bishop" <wbishop@pathfinder-ea.com><br>To: "Arpan Bakshi" <arpanbakshi@gmail.com><br>Cc: bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br>Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 10:11:30 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern<br>Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Energy Model Cost - best design doesn't equal most LEED points<br><br><!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--><div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Arpan,</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Based on the Weidt Group paper, I’m guessing you’re emphasizing architectural considerations that affect the energy cost vs. LEED points numbers. (The paper uses window-to-wall ratios and daylighting as an example.) I would think the goal during the programming and schematic design phases should be energy cost, not LEED points relative to the App. G baseline. Much of the energy cost savings vs. App. G baseline (EAc1 points) is going to come later from the mechanical and lighting designs. The suggestions in the paper to establish specific baseline building shapes and glazing percentages would add a LOT more modeling time – you’d have to create two separate building geometries for the baseline and proposed models, not to mention different zoning patterns, space types, lighting power per space etc.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">For mechanical design, once the size and programming of the project is established, the baseline model properties are pretty well set, unless you consider fuel-switching and go between baseline systems 1/3/5/7 to systems 2/4/6/8. One exception I can think of for a design decision that results in higher energy cost but better comparison with the App. G baseline is higher ventilation rates combined with heat recovery in the proposed and no heat recovery in the baseline.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Regards,</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Bill</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><img src="cid:image001.jpg@01CC1150.638F18C0" id="Picture_x0020_1" alt="Signature in jpg form" height="123" width="496"></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Arpan Bakshi<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 13, 2011 9:09 AM<br><b>To:</b> sheffer@energyopportunities.com<br><b>Cc:</b> <bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Energy Model Cost</span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Marcus, thank you incorporating this language.</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">The one scenario we often see in our design guidance work is that a proposed design when compared with other design alternates does not necessarily provided the largest energy savings when compared against its own baseline case model. It is difficult to make a recommendation as consultants when we want to present the Owner with both real energy cost savings without compromising their LEED certification level targets. </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">A recent paper presented by the Weidt Group at SimBuild touched on this issue:</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.ibpsa.us/pub/simbuild2010/technicalPresentations/SB10-PPT-TS02A-03-Baker.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.ibpsa.us/pub/simbuild2010/technicalPresentations/SB10-PPT-TS02A-03-Baker.pdf</a></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><br><br></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-style-span">Arpan Bakshi, LEED AP BD+C</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-style-span">YRG sustainability</span></p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>On May 13, 2011, at 8:16 AM, "Marcus Sheffer" <<a href="mailto:sheffer@energyopportunities.com" target="_blank">sheffer@energyopportunities.com</a>> wrote:</p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">If anyone has any good ideas about how to structure the LEED credits to end the practice of validation models at the end and encourage/require design phase modeling the folks on the USGBC EA TAG would love to hear them. The current proposed credit language from the first public comment phase is listed below.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#76923C">NC, CS, SCHOOLS, RETAIL, WAREHOUSE & DISTRIBUTION CENTERS, HOSPITALITY</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#76923C">Establish an energy performance target no later than the schematic design phase. The target must be established as kBTU per square foot-year of source energy use. This target must be mapped on the same scale as the baseline and proposed buildings, if the project follows Option 1.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#76923C"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#76923C">OPTION 1. Whole Building Energy Simulation </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#76923C">Analyze a minimum of at least nine efficiency measures during the design process and account for the results in design decision-making. Analysis can include energy simulation of efficiency opportunities, application of past energy simulation analyses for similar projects to the project, or application of published data from energy analyses performed for similar projects to the project (such as AEDGs).</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#76923C"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#76923C">A minimum of six energy efficiency measures focused on load reduction strategies appropriate for the facility must be analyzed. This analysis must be performed during the schematic design phase.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#76923C"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#76923C">A minimum of three energy efficiency measures focused on HVAC related strategies must be analyzed (passive measures are acceptable). This analysis must be performed before the conclusion of the design development phase.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#76923C"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#76923C">The results of the analysis must be summarized in a brief report or memorandum.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The next version of LEED will be going out for public comment again in July, I think, so please comment formally as well as discussing here.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:green">Marcus Sheffer</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:green">Energy Opportunities, Inc/a 7group Company</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">1200 E Camping Area Road, Wellsville, PA 17365</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">717-292-2636, </span><span style="color:#1F497D"><a href="mailto:sheffer@sevengroup.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">sheffer@sevengroup.com</span></a></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><a href="http://www.sevengroup.com" target="_blank">www.sevengroup.com</a></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> John Aulbach [mailto:jra_sac@yahoo.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 12, 2011 7:46 PM<br><b>To:</b> Carol Gardner; Marcus Sheffer<br><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Energy Model Cost</span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">OK, Carol..now you threw the "bait" out there..older than dirt, eh?</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I have done very limited LEED "type" modeling where you compare 20 walls and 40 windows types (well, it seemed that way). Correct me if I am wrong, but a Base model must be built to comply with a certain level of ASHRAE 90.1 (now up to 2010 ??). With all of the nuisances of eQuest 3.64, I am going to build the model from scrathc and put in all the relevant baseline data in by hand. And, by the way, the ASHRAE baseline model might be an entirely different system. I am just completing an EPACT evaluation (ASHRAE 90.1-2001) and the Baseline HVAC was screwe chillers, whereas the Actual building was packaged units with Turbocor compressors (ask me how I did that).</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">It very much depends on the complexity of the building. A 40,000 sf office or a 500,000 sf hotel with casino facilites.</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I am unfamiliar with the LEED paperwork to be filled out after the modeling has been done. But I would not do anything of this type in under 120 hours, preferably 160 hours. If the client thinks he can do better, let him.</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Contingency, contingency.</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">We won't discuss how old CAROL might be..</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">John A.</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p><div><div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center" align="center"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><hr align="center" size="1" width="100%"></span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Carol Gardner <<a href="mailto:cmg750@gmail.com" target="_blank">cmg750@gmail.com</a>><br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:sheffer@energyopportunities.com" target="_blank">sheffer@energyopportunities.com</a><br><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Sent:</b> Thu, May 12, 2011 2:59:12 PM<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Energy Model Cost<br></span><br>Marcus,<br><br>You have inadvertently hit upon why IBPSA worked with ASHRAE to create a BEMP certification. That's Building Energy Modeling Professional (BEMP). <br><br>Some of us who have been in the field for awhile began to worry a couple of years ago when so many new energy modelers began appearing on the listserv with questions. Their questions indicated a lack of training and experience that was worrisome. What made it worrisome was that they didn't seem to realize that they were as inexperienced as they were; they didn't appear to be pursuing training to learn how to do what they were doing; and we were uncertain as to how or if they were practicing quality control. We hoped that by creating a path to certification that we would give clients one more qualification to look for in their modelers.<br><br>If you have been in this industry for any length of time, and by industry I mean the overall construction industry, you know that you don't get a lot of chances if your work doesn't pan out. If your energy model says I have a LEED Gold building and I'm going to save $4,000/year and what I really get is LEED Silver and $1,000/year, I am not going to be happy. So, I will probably not give you any more work but, even worse for all of us, I'll start expressing doubts about the whole process. LEED - what is it good for?<br><br>So, now we all have more training, right? We read our ASHRAE Handbooks and technical manuals so we know how to model the difficult stuff. We can find any topic in the DOE2 Manuals, all of which are one line, available, and easily searchable. <br><br>So now we are so good we can do these models in 40-80 hours. Really? Not me and I've been doing it longer than everyone, except you, John Aulbach. So I'm going to join Marcus in his rant because he's on to something.<br><br>It's up to us to not under bid this work. It's up to us to educate our clients about the importance of quality in this process. If they think they are getting the same analysis in 40 hours that they used to get in 120 hours, they need to be led around to rethinking that and to be reminded that GIGO.<br><br>Cheers,<br><br>Carol<br><br><br>Thu, May 12, 2011 at 2:31 PM, Marcus Sheffer <<a href="mailto:sheffer@energyopportunities.com" target="_blank">sheffer@energyopportunities.com</a>> wrote:</p><div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">In our experience a final model, done right, would take about 80 hours.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">WARNING – frustrated modeling rant to follow:</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">Doing just a final model however completely misses the point as to why we model – it is to guide design decisions! </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">If I saw this RFP and all it asked me for was a model to determine LEED points, during or after design, I would try to educate the potential client about the purpose of modeling.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">Unfortunately too many projects pursuing LEED are only doing the minimum when it comes to modeling and almost completely missing all the benefits. Too often the “market” transforms only based on a least first cost denominator basis that results in little real transformation. Doing models to determine LEED points does not transform the market, save any energy, and just circumvents the purpose behind LEED. (the next version actually requires design phase modeling!)</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">Any “modeler” who does only final models without attempting to explain to the owner why this is a bad idea should be “drummed out of the corp” in my humble opinion.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">The problem is that if you respond to this RFP with 120 or 160 or more hours to really do the design phase modeling right, you will go up against the “modeler” who claims to be able to do it in far less time. So how do we get the folks who issue the RFPs to ask for a proper scope of work so that they can compare fees on a level playing field? It is unfortunate that we are even having a discussion about doing modeling work in opposition to its purpose.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">Sorry for the rant but I feel better now. </span><span style="font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D">J</span><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:green">Marcus Sheffer</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:green">Energy Opportunities, Inc/a 7group Company</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;color:#1F497D">1200 E Camping Area Road, Wellsville, PA 17365</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;color:#1F497D">717-292-2636, </span><span style="color:#1F497D"><a href="mailto:sheffer@sevengroup.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:7.5pt">sheffer@sevengroup.com</span></a></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;color:#1F497D"><a href="http://www.sevengroup.com" target="_blank">www.sevengroup.com</a></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt"> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Demba Ndiaye<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 12, 2011 4:28 PM<br><b>To:</b> Omar Delgado; <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Energy Model Cost</span></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">Omar,</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">I would expect, for a building this size, approximately 40 hours (multiply by your hourly rate). The 40 hours include EAp2/EAc1 LEED documentation, and any review you may have to respond to later.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">Now, given that you have never done a LEED model, it will take you more time, possibly up to 40 more hours.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">HTH,</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">_______________</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">Demba NDIAYE</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt"> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Omar Delgado<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 12, 2011 7:08 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Bldg-sim] Energy Model Cost</span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Greetings everyone,</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I have a question regarding the cost of an energy model for a LEED project. Every energy model I've done so far has been for </p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">existing buildings, mainly for optimization purposes. However, I received an RFP to model a five-story, 41,500 sq. ft. building</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">that's currently on the design phase and is pursuing the LEED-NC Silver certification. I really have no idea what would be a fair </p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">price for this model since I'm going to have to use Appendix G (ASHRAE 90.1) to evaluate the difference between the base </p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">and proposed buildings. I don't know how much extra effort this will take. I know the procedure, just haven't done it before.</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Can you shed any light on this issue?</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Thanks in advance!</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Papyrus" lang="ES-PR">Omar A. Delgado Colón, P.E., MEnvM., LEED AP BD&C</span></i></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Papyrus">Vice President</span></i></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="color:#FF8000">Ener</span>Mech</b></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">PMB 340</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">130 Winston Churchill Ave.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt" lang="ES-PR">San Juan, PR 00926-6018</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt" lang="ES-PR">Cel. (787) 224-6537</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="ES-PR"><a href="mailto:odelgado@enermechpr.com" target="_blank">odelgado@enermechpr.com</a></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="ES-PR"><a href="mailto:info@enermechpr.com" target="_blank">info@enermechpr.com</a></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><a href="http://www.enermechpr.com/" target="_blank"><span lang="ES-PR">www.enermechpr.com</span></a></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="ES-PR"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="ES-PR"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="ES-PR"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:#74B230"><image001.gif> <i>Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail</i></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:#1F497D">This Email is covered by the Electronics Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 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<p style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="MsoHeader"><span style="COLOR: #006600; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><strong><font face="Calibri">Dr. Hussein Abaza, Assistant Professor<!--?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /--><o:p></o:p></font></strong></span></p>
<p style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="MsoHeader"><span style="COLOR: #006600; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><strong><font face="Calibri">Construction Management Department <o:p></o:p></font></strong></span></p>
<p style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="MsoHeader"><strong><font face="Calibri"><!--?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /--><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:placetype w:st="on"><span style="COLOR: #006600; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">SCHOOL</span></st1:placetype><span style="COLOR: #006600; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"> OF <st1:placename w:st="on">ARCHITECTURE</st1:placename></span></st1:place><span style="COLOR: #006600; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">’<o:p></o:p></span></font></strong></p>
<p style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="MsoHeader"><span style="COLOR: #006600; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><strong><font face="Calibri">CIVIL ENGINEERING TECHNOLOGY<o:p></o:p></font></strong></span></p>
<p style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="MsoHeader"><span style="COLOR: #006600; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><strong><font face="Calibri"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>And CONSTRUCTION<o:p></o:p></font></strong></span></p>
<p style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="MsoHeader"><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri"><st1:address w:st="on"><st1:street w:st="on"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt">1100 South Marietta Parkway</span></st1:street><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt">, <st1:city w:st="on">Marietta</st1:city>, <st1:state w:st="on">GA</st1:state> <st1:postalcode w:st="on">30060-2896</st1:postalcode></span></st1:address><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt"><o:p></o:p></span></font></font></p>
<p style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="MsoHeader"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri">Website: </font><a href="http://www.spsu.edu/cost"><font face="Calibri">www.spsu.edu/cost</font></a><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>Tel: 678-915-3719 Fax: 678-915-4966<o:p></o:p></font></font></span></p>
<p style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="MsoHeader"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt"><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri">E-mail: ahussein@spsu.edu<o:p></o:p></font></font></span></p>
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