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Did I miss something? I would have started with EnergyPlus.<br>
<br>
On 4/24/11 8:49 PM, Jeff Haberl wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:9F589FD23AD8AB41A8ED33EE68F2CFC7293163@TEESMAIL.tees.tamus.edu"
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<p style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"
class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Times New
Roman','serif'; color: black; font-size: 12pt;">Hamada, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"
class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Times New
Roman','serif'; color: black; font-size: 12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"
class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Times New
Roman','serif'; color: black; font-size: 12pt;">Unfortunately,
you've chosen the worst possible building for analysis.
There are several reasons for this.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"
class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Times New
Roman','serif'; color: black; font-size: 12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"
class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Times New
Roman','serif'; color: black; font-size: 12pt;">First, there
is no single U.S. tool that does an accurate analysis of
what you are asking for. There are some that perform
simplified analysis of most of the parameters you are
looking for, but none do it all right (that I’m aware of).
Some of the European codes are getting close, for example
ESPr and/or IES/VE, but each has its limitations. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"
class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Times New
Roman','serif'; color: black; font-size: 12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"
class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Times New
Roman','serif'; color: black; font-size: 12pt;">To estimate
the thermal analysis with Visual DOE (i.e., DOE-2.1e) or
EQUEST (i.e., DOE-2.2) you’d need to have at least one zone
that is conditioned in order to simulate conditions in an
unconditioned space. So, although it is possible to perform
such a simulation, you have to go to great lengths to do
this with canned simulations such as DOE-2.1e and DOE-2.2.
One successful project that did this for a Buddhist temple
was done by Dr. Sreshthaputra, which you can read about in:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"
class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Times New
Roman','serif'; color: black; font-size: 12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p style="line-height: normal; text-indent: -0.25in; margin: 0in
0in 0pt 0.25in;" class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman','serif'; color:
black; font-size: 12pt;">Sreshthaputra, A., Haberl, J.,
Andrews, M. 2004. “Improving Building Design and Operation
.of a Thai Buddhist Temple,” <i>Energy and Buildings</i>,
Vol. 36, pp. 481-494. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="line-height: normal; text-indent: -0.25in; margin: 0in
0in 0pt 0.25in;" class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman','serif'; color:
black; font-size: 12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p style="line-height: normal; text-indent: -0.25in; margin: 0in
0in 0pt 0.25in;" class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman','serif'; color:
black; font-size: 12pt;">Or in his thesis:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="line-height: normal; text-indent: -0.25in; margin: 0in
0in 0pt 0.25in;" class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman','serif'; color:
black; font-size: 12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p style="line-height: normal; text-indent: -0.25in; margin: 0in
0in 0pt 0.25in;" class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman','serif'; color:
black; font-size: 12pt;">Atch Sreshthaputra, 2004. “</span><span
style="font-family: 'Times New Roman','serif'; color: black;
font-size: 12pt;">Building Design and Operation for
Improving Thermal Comfort in Naturally Ventilated Buildings
in a Hot and Humid Climate,” Department of Architecture,
Texas A&M University.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="line-height: normal; text-indent: -0.25in; margin: 0in
0in 0pt 0.25in;" class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman','serif'; color:
black; font-size: 12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p style="line-height: normal; text-indent: -0.25in; margin: 0in
0in 0pt 0.25in;" class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman','serif'; color:
black; font-size: 12pt;">In this work, which was calibrated
to real data from the temple, Atch created a fictitious zone
that did nothing, then proceeded to model the temple as a
unconditioned zone, which worked with one exception that it
did not handle the air flows. To get around this Atch ran
CFD with a program that used a 3D model from the CHAM
engine, then passed the airflows back to DOE-2 each hour to
do the run, which calculated the dynamic heat transfer, then
back to the CFD for the next hour’s airflow, etc., (taking
24 hours to simulate 24 hours on 2003ish Pentium, not
exactly fast).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="line-height: normal; text-indent: -0.25in; margin: 0in
0in 0pt 0.25in;" class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman','serif'; color:
black; font-size: 12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p style="line-height: normal; text-indent: -0.25in; margin: 0in
0in 0pt 0.25in;" class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman','serif'; color:
black; font-size: 12pt;">Second, you can probably get an
estimate of the daylighting using DOE-2.1e or DOE-2.2 that
should be accurate for and sidelights if you know the
internal geometry, including surface characteristics, since
they use the split-flux method. More accurate daylighting
simulations can be done with RADIANCE or annual simulations
with DAYSIM, or perhaps one of the new annual variants of
RADIANCE.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="line-height: normal; text-indent: -0.25in; margin: 0in
0in 0pt 0.25in;" class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman','serif'; color:
black; font-size: 12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p style="line-height: normal; text-indent: -0.25in; margin: 0in
0in 0pt 0.25in;" class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman','serif'; color:
black; font-size: 12pt;">Third, true calculations of thermal
comfort would require CFD and a internal radiation network
(should interior surfaces get hot or cold), which further
complicate things.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="line-height: normal; text-indent: -0.25in; margin: 0in
0in 0pt 0.25in;" class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman','serif'; color:
black; font-size: 12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p style="line-height: normal; text-indent: -0.25in; margin: 0in
0in 0pt 0.25in;" class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman','serif'; color:
black; font-size: 12pt;">So, it can be done, but there are
only a few efforts in the literature that give solid advice
on how to do this, probably more as time goes on. Getting
all this in one package is probably not there yet. Probably
still a good topic for a Ph.D. thesis.</span></p>
<p style="line-height: normal; text-indent: -0.25in; margin: 0in
0in 0pt 0.25in;" class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman','serif'; color:
black; font-size: 12pt;"></span> </p>
<p style="line-height: normal; text-indent: -0.25in; margin: 0in
0in 0pt 0.25in;" class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman','serif'; color:
black; font-size: 12pt;">Jeff</span></p>
<p> </p>
<div>
<p> </p>
<div><font color="#0000ff" face="Tahoma" size="2">8=! 8=)
:=) 8=) ;=) 8=) 8=( 8=) 8=() 8=) 8=| 8=) :=')
8=)8=?<br>
<br>
Jeff S. Haberl, Ph.D.,P.E.,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:FASHRAE..............jhaberl@tamu.edu">FASHRAE..............jhaberl@tamu.edu</a><br>
<br>
Professor............................................................Office
Ph: 979-845-6507<br>
<br>
Department of Architecture.............................Lab
Ph:979-845-6065<br>
<br>
Energy Systems Laboratory.............................FAX:
979-862-2457<br>
<br>
Texas A&M
University.....................................77843-3581<br>
<br>
College Station, Texas, USA,
77843..................URL:www.esl.tamu.edu<br>
<br>
8=/ 8=) :=) 8=) ;=) 8=) 8=() 8=) :=) 8=) 8=!
8=) 8=? 8=)8=0<br>
</font></div>
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font-size: 16px;">
<hr tabindex="-1">
<div style="direction: ltr;" id="divRpF938488"><font
color="#000000" face="Tahoma" size="2"><b>From:</b>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] on behalf of ali
hamada fakra [<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:fakra@univ-reunion.fr">fakra@univ-reunion.fr</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 21, 2011 11:32 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Bldg-sim] Bldg-sim] Modeling tool for
daylight, Energy, Thermal comfort analysis<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>Message: 2</div>
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 10:47:20 +0530 (IST)<br>
From: Rathna Shree <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rathnashreep@yahoo.in" target="_blank">rathnashreep@yahoo.in</a>><br>
To: bldg <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org"
target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a>><br>
Subject: [Bldg-sim] Modeling tool for daylight, Energy,<span
style="white-space: pre;" class="Apple-tab-span"><br>
</span>Thermal<br>
<span style="white-space: pre;" class="Apple-tab-span"></span>comfort
analysis<br>
Message-ID: <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:935834.21570.qm@web95906.mail.in.yahoo.com"
target="_blank">935834.21570.qm@web95906.mail.in.yahoo.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Dear All,<br>
<br>
Can you please suggest the best modeling tool which has the
capabilities to perform Daylight simulation, Thermal comfort
analysis in non AC spaces of a building and Energy
simulation.<br>
<br>
I am using dialux for daylight simulation, Visual Doe for
Energy simulation and Transys for Thermal comfort analysis.
I am inputting the same details thrice in different
softwares. So is there any software which can perform all
the 3 analysis in one go.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Rathnashree
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>------------------------------------------------------------</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Hello Rathmashree,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I suggest you use CODYRUN. Is a french software
dedicated to both research and consulting firms. You can
make the 3 studies (Energy simulation, Daylight and
thermal confort).that you want at the same time. For more
information about this software, you can write to
Professor Harry Boyer (Founder of the software) to this
mail : <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:harry.boyer@univ-reunion.fr"
target="_blank">harry.boyer@univ-reunion.fr</a> </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best regards,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>PhD / Engineer A. H. Fakra</div>
<div> </div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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