<div>Hi all,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Can anyone suggest the best tool to model double skin facades with glazing?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Kiran<br><br></div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 2:01 AM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:bldg-sim-request@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim-request@lists.onebuilding.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">Send Bldg-sim mailing list submissions to<br> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
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<br>Today's Topics:<br><br> 1. Re: Difference in chiller energy for VAV and CAV system<br> (Nick Caton)<br> 2. Re: Double Facades - EPlus (Pedro Peixeiro)<br> 3. Corporate Deduction, comparison of the proposed design with<br>
the baseline design by ASHRAE 90.1-2001 (Evgenia Gorbachinsky)<br> 4. Re: Corporate Deduction, comparison of the proposed design<br> with the baseline design by ASHRAE 90.1-2001 (Deru, Michael)<br> 5. Re: Corporate Deduction, comparison of the proposed design<br>
with the baseline design by ASHRAE 90.1-2001 (Robert Gengelbach)<br> 6. fully funded PhD position at TU Eindhoven (Hensen, J.L.M.)<br> 7. 90.1 Appendix G - Resizing Baseline Systems to Meet Unmet<br> Load Requirements (G3.1.2.2) (Kerry Gorczynski)<br>
<br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: "Nick Caton" <<a href="mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com">ncaton@smithboucher.com</a>><br>To: "Aaron Powers" <<a href="mailto:caaronpowers@gmail.com">caaronpowers@gmail.com</a>>, "Deepak Tewari" <<a href="mailto:dipaktwri@yahoo.co.in">dipaktwri@yahoo.co.in</a>><br>
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 16:18:42 -0500<br>Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Difference in chiller energy for VAV and CAV system<br>
<div lang="EN-US" vlink="purple" link="blue">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">I too cannot claim to be capable of tearing a chiller apart and putting it back together, but I can affirm Aaron’s fundamentals appear on-cue to my understanding. Less cooling </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: Wingdings">à</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> less compressor work </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: Wingdings">à</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> $$$ savings.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">The attached email exchange from a few months back may be of interest to those following/participating in this discussion, though it is a bit lengthy. In it, I attempt to “reverse engineer” the three default curves found in eQuest/DOE2 which together define behavior of a centrifugal chiller, observing and discussing the isolated effects of all the variables that are taken into account on an hourly basis… One following along can see I was a bit puzzled along the way, but arrived at an “ah-ha” moment when I followed through and applied the curves against each other to observe their net effects on efficiency under set conditions.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">My hope then and now is that sharing this thought process may help others arrive at their own “eureka” moments =).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">~Nick</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"><img height="37" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB" width="119"></span><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #2d4d5e"></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #2d4d5e"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #2d4d5e">NICK CATON, E.I.T.</span></b><b><span style="COLOR: #2d4d5e"></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: #cc9900">PROJECT ENGINEER</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #2d4d5e">Smith & Boucher Engineers</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: #cc9900"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #2d4d5e">25501 west valley parkway</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #2d4d5e">olathe ks 66061</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #2d4d5e">direct 913 344.0036</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #2d4d5e">fax 913 345.0617</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"><a title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com" href="http://www.smithboucher.com/" target="_blank"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue"> </span></u><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Aaron Powers<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 22, 2011 2:41 PM<br><b>To:</b> Deepak Tewari<br><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Difference in chiller energy for VAV and CAV system</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt">Bill, you're right about that. A central CAV system with reheat is limited by the most loaded zone. My statements before were simply for one air path and one zone, which is probably rare. The degree to which this hurts a CAV system depends on the diversity of the loads. If all zone loads remain similar, then the supply air temperature off the CAV coils will start to float upwards at reduced loads, and you'll see an increased chilled water delta-T.<br>
<br>As for the increased chiller efficiency, here's my thinking. At a constant load with no mixing valves, an increased delta T across the cooling coils allows for a lower gpm. Slowing the water flow rate and raising the entering water temperature increases the effectiveness of the evaporator barrel (i.e. the enthalpy of the refrigerant now has a greater ability to approach the enthalpy of the higher enthalpy water). Running the compressor as before would over-cool the water. To maintain a constant chilled water supply temperature, the mass flow of the refrigerant must be reduced. Depending on the type of compressor unloading mechanism, this should produce some energy savings.<br>
<br>This is my understanding simply based on theory, and I'm sure it's much more complicated in reality. Again, I know that DOE2 does not account for varying inlet conditions to the chiller evaporator barrel, but I'm not sure about ePlus. <br>
<br>Aaron</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 5:30 AM, Deepak Tewari <<a href="mailto:dipaktwri@yahoo.co.in" target="_blank">dipaktwri@yahoo.co.in</a>> wrote:</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Aaron <br>Can you elaborate how the larger chilled water delta-T will decrease chiller lift and increase efficiency?</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><br><br></p></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
<hr align="center" width="100%" size="1">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Aaron Powers <<a href="mailto:caaronpowers@gmail.com" target="_blank">caaronpowers@gmail.com</a>><br><b>To:</b> "James V Dirkes II, PE" <<a href="mailto:jvd2pe@tds.net" target="_blank">jvd2pe@tds.net</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Deepak Tewari <<a href="mailto:dipaktwri@yahoo.co.in" target="_blank">dipaktwri@yahoo.co.in</a>>; <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Sent:</b> Mon, 21 March, 2011 8:41:21 PM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Difference in chiller energy for VAV and CAV system</span></p></div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">There are several things going on here:</p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">- Yes, the lower fan energy for VAV will add less heat to the chilled water loop. This will propogate to the pumps, chillers, and heat rejection.</p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">- Chilled water coils are complex heat-exchangers, which do not exibit linear behavior. Reducing the air flow decreases the water-side coil effectiveness; therefore, at a given load, a CAV system will have a larger chilled water delta-T.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">- With equivalent pumping schemes, this will result in pump savings for the CAV system (in the absence of 3-way valves). I'm not sure about ePlus, but this can be demonstrated in the latest DOE2.2.</p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">- In reality, the larger chilled water delta-T will decrease chiller lift and increase its efficiency. Again I'm not sure about ePlus, but in DOE2.2, chiller curves are a function of a dT parameter which is the difference between condenser entering and chilled water leaving temperatures. Its an attempt to account for chiller lift, but it does not give an efficiency credit for increasing the chilled water delta-T. So, you will not see the chiller efficiency boost in DOE2 for CAV systems due to a greater chilled water delta-T.</p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">In my experience, the VAV fan savings (and reduced chilled water load savings) usually outweigh the pump and chiller savings for CAV. However, it varies from building to building. For example, if you had a rare building with a low air-side static pressure drop to begin with and a long, high head pumping system, then its possible that the CAV system will be more efficient overall.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Aaron</p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 8:13 AM, James V Dirkes II, PE <<a href="mailto:jvd2pe@tds.net" target="_blank">jvd2pe@tds.net</a>> wrote:</p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">Deepak,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">Here are some thoughts:</span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: Symbol">· </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">Less fan energy = less cooling load, since the fan energy is a part of the total cooling load.</span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: Symbol">· </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">If the pump is variable volume, the pump energy required for VAV fans will be slightly less due to less fan heat to cool.</span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: Symbol">· </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">If you are using the identical chiller for each system (VAV, CAV), then the chiller should use less energy also, due to less fan and pump heat.</span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: Symbol">· </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">A more common comparison would be to contrast a VAV chiller system with a CAV packaged rooftop system. For that comparison, the part load efficiencies of chiller and compressor / DX coil will be a major factor. Dehumidification will also be different for DX vs. chilled water coils.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: #1f497d">The Building Performance Team<br></span><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">James V. Dirkes II, P.E., LEED AP<br>
</span></b><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">1631 Acacia Drive NW<br>Grand Rapids, MI 49504<br>616 450 8653</span></p></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
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<div style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Deepak Tewari<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 21, 2011 2:31 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Bldg-sim] Difference in chiller energy for VAV and CAV system</span></p>
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<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"> </p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">Dear All,<br><br>I am comparing the energy performance of a constant volume and variable volume system for a composite climate of India (New Delhi) in EnergyPlus. The building area is 7500 sq m. The chiller capacity is same for both the cases. The chilled water to the cooling coils is supplied by a constant speed pump. <br>
<br>The savings in the fan energy is evident due to variable speed of the supply fan in case of VAV. However i am getting energy saving in cooling energy (chiller energy) also, in VAV compared to CAV, which i feel is due to higher delta T (chilled water) across cooling coil for CAV compared to VAV, this in turns increases the chiller electricity consumption. However while discussions with some consultant, it is their feeling that the cooling energy would remain same for both type of systems.<br>
<br>I want to ask has someone else tried this simulation and would there be any difference in cooling energy or not? <br>Thanks in advance.<br>Deepak</p></div></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"> </p></div></div></div></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><br>_______________________________________________<br>Bldg-sim mailing list<br><a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org" target="_blank">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org</a><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Sent from my DynaTAC 8000x</p></div></div></div></div></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Sent from my DynaTAC 8000x</p></div></div><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: "Nick Caton" <<a href="mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com">ncaton@smithboucher.com</a>><br>
To: "John T. Forester" <JohnTF@BVHis.com>, <<a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a>><br>Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 14:32:28 -0500<br>Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Chiller Curves (oh boy!)<br>
<div lang="EN-US" vlink="purple" link="blue">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">Thanks to some extra guidance from John Forester and David Eldrige, I can tie up some loose ends Ieft on the list this week.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">Analyzing the isolated default curves plotted out, I failed to keep one thing in perspective: while each demonstrates how the variables (CHWT, CWT, dT, PLR) independently affect a chiller’s performance, the three curves ultimately work in concert to produce a net effect each hour.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">The EIR-FPLR&dT curve appeared wonky to me because I didn’t remember the normalized EIR is simulataneously affected by the CHWT and CWT values, independent of the dT. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">I expect many eyes are glazing over =). This is really hard to convey in text alone, so I brought along some show-and-tell pictures for the group:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">The following is the two default EIR curves: EIR-f(t1, t2) and EIR-f(PLR, dT) I showed earlier, multiplied together for a single CHWT and various CWT’s. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">In a nutshell, this illustrates how efficiency changes independent of the effects of the water temperatures on the chiller’s hourly capacity.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">The combined effects of the 2 curves moves their “sweet spots” into the range I was expecting:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"><img height="512" alt="cid:image002.png@01CB7C15.4E6F3720" width="661"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">…And the following is the same thing, but adding the effects of the CAP-FT curve to the mix: all 3 default curves applied together in concert.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">This is what you’re modeling for a centrifugal VSD chiller every time you rely on the library default curves.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">Condenser water temps straying far from the rated conditions (85) get an efficiency penalty between these curves, just as the isolated CAP-FT curve indicated.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">These curves pass my personal gut check: they look very much like some chiller curves I’m used to seeing. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">Of note: This visual can serve as a great reference for judging whether developing custom curves is a worthwhile venture for a given chiller. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"><img height="512" alt="cid:image003.png@01CB7C15.4E6F3720" width="661"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">In conclusion, the default curves for centrifugal VSD chillers aren’t that crazy after all, but be cautioned they can definitely be very different from your actually equipment. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">I tried briefly to figure out who the author(s) of that EDR guideline were 5 years ago, but came up empty handed… </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">Does anyone else agree or disagree with me & John regarding whether it should be fundamentally sound to define curves from design capacities on downward (setting DESIGN-PLR=1.0), as long as those capacities aren’t exceeded in the model at-hand? I’d feel comfier if it felt like a consensus =).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">Thanks everyone,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">~Nick</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"><img height="37" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB" width="119"></span><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #2d4d5e"></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #2d4d5e"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #2d4d5e">NICK CATON, E.I.T.</span></b><b><span style="COLOR: #2d4d5e"></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: #cc9900">PROJECT ENGINEER</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: #cc9900"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #2d4d5e">25501 west valley parkway</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #2d4d5e">olathe ks 66061</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #2d4d5e">direct 913 344.0036</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #2d4d5e">fax 913 345.0617</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #2d4d5e">Check out our new web-site @ </span></i><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"><a title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com" href="http://www.smithboucher.com/" target="_blank"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue"> </span></u><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> John T. Forester [mailto:<a href="mailto:JohnTF@BVHis.com" target="_blank">JohnTF@BVHis.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 03, 2010 3:42 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nick Caton; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] Chiller Curves (oh boy!)</span></p></div></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">Nick,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">Thanks for adding your thoughts. I believe you and I are on the same page here.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">On item 2 below, the help files state that the EIR-FPLR&dT curve must be normalized to “full-load” or “maximum capacity” and not the design capacity. Intuitively (maybe), if you normalize these curves to the design capacity and then set the DESIGN-PLR to 1.0, it seems that this is locking in your design values as maximum values. Physically, the machine may have more capacity, but your energy model will be limited to these hard-coded design values.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">One way to check the model curve accuracy is to use hourly report blocks/reports to track the CHW supply temp, entering CW temp, chiller PLR, chiller EIR. Use your normalized curves to calculate the EIR for each hour with the CHW and CW temps and PLR. Then compare your calculated EIR with the EIR from eQuest. I believe you can also track the chiller capacity to see if it is holding the max capacity based on the DESIGN-PLR value and chiller capacity value you enter.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">John</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: gray">John T. Forester, P.E., LEED AP, Mechanical Design Engineer </span><strong><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: #0000a0">I BVH Integrated Services I</span></strong><strong><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: black"> </span></strong><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: gray">617.658.9008 tel </span><strong><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: #0000a0">I</span></strong><strong><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: gray"> </span></strong><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: gray">617.244.3753 fax</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: #0000a0"> <strong><span>I</span></strong></span><strong><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: gray"> </span></strong><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: gray">One Gateway Center Suite 506, Newton MA 02458 </span><strong><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: #0000a0">I <a href="http://www.bvhis.com/" target="_blank">www.bvhis.com</a> I Hartford ● New Haven ● Boston</span></strong><span style="COLOR: gray"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Nick Caton [mailto:<a href="mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com" target="_blank">ncaton@smithboucher.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 03, 2010 3:40 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> John T. Forester; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] Chiller Curves (oh boy!)</span></p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">Yikes… looks like a slew of responses got out before I finished this one, but I have a lot to say =)… For context you might want to check which email I’m responding to first, everyone ;).</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">John, thanks very much for the encouragement. I think I can help further your thoughts:</span></p>
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<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"><span>1.<span style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </span></span></span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">Getting a manufacturer vendor to cooperate is indeed tricky for all parties, and I’m not convinced their selection software really affords them the capability to find maximum loading points for varying condenser/evaporater temps in a time-efficient fashion… time will tell but I’ve got a very smart rep right now promising to see what he can do.</span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"><span>2.<span style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </span></span></span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">I’d rest easier knowing it’s perfectly fine to normalize all three curves to the design conditions and have a PLR of 1.0 equal the design conditions… except for the DOE2 help entries explicitly telling us that for centrifugal chillers, “full load” means “maximum” (see the highlighted copy-paste job way down below and the entry for EIR-FPLR as well). </span></p>
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<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">That said, your call to better understand the default curves sounds a lot like a request, so perhaps I can scratch your back in return ;). Here are the three curves eQuest pulls from its library when you specify a water cooled centrifugal chiller… visualized! </span></p>
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<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">Note that each curve is indeed normalized to (Z=1.0 at) ARI conditions. I’ve followed each with my (novice) observations/commentary.</span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"><img height="532" width="662" border="0"></span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">The EIR-FPLR&dT curve seems, well, kinda wacky to me! I’ve conferred with a few other mechanical designers, and we seem to agree that an efficiency “sweet spot” for a centrifugal variable speed chiller should lie somewhere between zero and full loading conditions – this curve’s shape seems to demonstrate continually improving efficiencies as you approach zero loading. Truthfully, there’s a very slight apex that’s hard to see (you can tell by the curving bands) just off the charted values shown between the 10% and 20% loading marks, but what chiller has an optimum efficiency at 15% loading? I’d of this as a “normal” shape if the z-axis were on some scale of straight power (kW)… I’d expect that to continually drop off with the PLR in this fashion, but that z-axis is normalized EIR (kW/ton conceptually, if not in magnitude)… shouldn’t the default curve have a “sweet-spot” efficiency somewhere in the vicinity of 40-60% loading?</span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"><img height="512" width="662" border="0"></span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">This EIR-FT curve is again normalized (1.0) at ARI conditions, and tells us that the chiller will be pretty much linearly more efficient as you increase the CHWT target temperature, and will exponentially increase in efficiency as the condenser water temperature drops. Raising either has less of an inverse effect. Nothing seems odd to me.</span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"><img height="512" width="662" border="0"></span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">This curve is also normalized (1.0) at ARI conditions, and is telling us the chiller loses capacity when the condenser water either rises or falls from ARI conditions (20-30% drop from ARI, when CWT is at 100F or 50F, for example). I’m too new at this to know whether that makes total sense, but my initial guess would be that colder condenser water would always be help improve capacity… I’d infer from this curve that centrifugal chillers are designed and optimized around a specific condenser water temperature, and that hotter <u>or</u> colder condenser water temperatures, for the same CHWT, hurts your equipment’s potential capacity. I suppose it might well be a function of the refrigerant’s thermodynamic properties? The CHWT selected has a linear, but a relative to the CWT minor effect on the capacity of the chiller. </span></p>
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<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"><span>3.<span style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </span></span></span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">You’ve nailed my current approach on the head! I’m just concerned that going against the explicit instructions in the DOE2 help entries (mentioned above) may have some significant impact on what I’m modeling…</span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"><span>4.<span style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </span></span></span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">Fully agreeing. And kudos for condensing paragraphs of fretting into a single line answer =).</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">Thanks again so much for everyone’s input so far. I’d be curious to hear any other thoughts or second-opinions we as a group may have regarding:</span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"><span>A.<span style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </span></span></span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">Why does the default part load curve above seems such an odd shape (at least to my eyes) for a centrifugal VSD chiller? Are my chiller fundamentals off?</span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"><span>B.<span style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </span></span></span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">To what end/purpose do the DOE2 help docs and the EDR guidelines emphasis normalizing the EIR-FPLR curve to maximum vs. design capacities at the rated conditions, when you can normalize and specify to ARI conditions and set DESIGN-PLR=1.0 as John and I are discussing? I mean, I understand that you could get a “comprehensive” set of curves allowing you to apply the same chiller to other projects where you have a higher design capacity (or expect higher capacities will be required), but is there any inherent loss of accuracy if you build everything around data points encompassing all extremes present in the simulated model?</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">~Nick</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"><img height="37" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB" width="119" border="0"></span><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #2d4d5e"></span></b></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #2d4d5e">NICK CATON, E.I.T.</span></b><b><span style="COLOR: #2d4d5e"></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: #cc9900">PROJECT ENGINEER</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: #cc9900"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #2d4d5e">25501 west valley parkway</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #2d4d5e">olathe ks 66061</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #2d4d5e">direct 913 344.0036</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #2d4d5e">fax 913 345.0617</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #2d4d5e">Check out our new web-site @ </span></i><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"><a title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com" href="http://www.smithboucher.com/" target="_blank"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue"> </span></u><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> John T. Forester [mailto:<a href="mailto:JohnTF@BVHis.com" target="_blank">JohnTF@BVHis.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 03, 2010 11:49 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nick Caton; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] Chiller Curves (oh boy!)</span></p></div></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">Nick,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">I think you’re on the right track. Below are some of my thoughts on your conclusions. I hope the modeling community will set me straight if I’m wrong here.</span></p>
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<ol style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="COLOR: navy"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Getting multiple performance runs from vendors that show part-load performance independent of the CW and CHW temps can often be challenging. Adding the “maximum capability” task to that for each of the conditions requires a pretty detailed understanding of the selection software. I’d say if you can get PLR data for 3-4 different CHW temps while holding the CW temps constant at 85, 75, 65 (and sometimes lower) – you’re ahead of most modelers. Working with the Mechanical Design Engineer and the vendor together has been successful for me in the past.</span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal" style="COLOR: navy"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Defining the chiller capabilities at the “maximum” may only come into play if you expect your model to overload the chiller above the specified design capacity (I’m thinking building additions or process loads). At this point, this data (or knowing what the default eQuest curves do in that range) would be useful. Depending on your project, the time spent on developing curves for PLR >1.0 may not be justified.</span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal" style="COLOR: navy"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">If you don’t have “max” data and don’t want eQuest to assume performance at a part-load ratio >1.0, you can set the DESIGN-PLR to 1.0.</span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal" style="COLOR: navy"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Either way, you want your curves to be normalized at whatever condition you specify (Design or Rated) and you want to enter those values on the Basic Specifications tab.</span></li>
</ol>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">John</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: gray">John T. Forester, P.E., LEED AP, Mechanical Design Engineer </span><strong><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: #0000a0">I BVH Integrated Services I</span></strong><strong><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: black"> </span></strong><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: gray">617.658.9008 tel </span><strong><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: #0000a0">I</span></strong><strong><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: gray"> </span></strong><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: gray">617.244.3753 fax</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: #0000a0"> <strong><span>I</span></strong></span><strong><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: gray"> </span></strong><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: gray">One Gateway Center Suite 506, Newton MA 02458 </span><strong><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: #0000a0">I <a href="http://www.bvhis.com/" target="_blank">www.bvhis.com</a> I Hartford ● New Haven ● Boston</span></strong><span style="COLOR: gray"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Nick Caton [mailto:<a href="mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com" target="_blank">ncaton@smithboucher.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 03, 2010 12:06 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> John T. Forester; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] Chiller Curves (oh boy!)</span></p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">John,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">The design/max ratio is exactly what I’m discussing below when I say “DESIGN-PLR ratio,” so we’re definitely in the same ballpark =).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">I’d like to apply/paraphrase your advice to a few conditions to be sure I’m getting it correctly: </span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"><span>-<span style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </span></span></span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">If we create all 3 custom curves, and normalize each to a point at maximum (not design) capacity, then the design-to-max ratio (DESIGN-PLR) should be set to 1.00.</span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"><span>-<span style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </span></span></span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">If we create <u>only</u> the part load efficiency curve (EIR-FPLR or EIR-FPLR&dT), and wish to use the library defaults for EIR-FT and CAP-FT, then we should normalize this curve’s data points to ARI conditions (as that’s what the library curves are normalized to, per James’s email – I think I’ve read this somewhere also), specify an ARI capacity, EIR and conditions on the basic specifications tab, and enter a DESIGN-PLR of [ARI capacity/maximum capacity (for the same conditions)].</span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"><span>-<span style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </span></span></span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">If we create all 3 custom curves, and try to normalize each to either ARI or design conditions, then we should specify capacity, EIR, CHWT, CWT and condenser GPM corresponding to either the ARI or design conditions of that normalizing point. In that case, we also specify a DESIGN-PLR using either the ARI or design capacity divided by the maximum capacity for the same conditions.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">Profound (to me) Conclusion</span></u><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">: In <u>No</u> instance should we <u>Ever</u> attempt creating custom curves and NOT have at least one run from our manufacturer telling us what the maximum (not design) capacity is for the normalizing point. This conclusion would only apply to centrifugal chillers only.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">Does this all sound right?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">~Nick</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">James, </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">Yeah, if all the part load data you received held the same CHWT and CWT equal, you might be able to make your part-load curve if it could have been a quadratic EIR-FPLR curve (like a reciprocating chiller), but not a bi-quadratic EIR-FPLR&dT (as with my centrifugal VSD chiller). You definitely could not approach generating custom EIR-FT or CAP-FT curves without varying condenser and chilled water temps. That exact issue happened to me the first few times I tried to reign my chiller reps in =). </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">This time, I convinced my rep to give me multiple part load runs holding the CHWT constant and varying the CWT incrementally. This let me build the bi-quadratic EIR-FPLR&dT curve as I had at least three different dT’s represented in my part load data points. I plotted the 3D curve in excel to check my work and darned if the generated coefficients seem to be really accurate =)! It’s currently looking like a bittersweet revelation however – the library curve for a water-cooled centrifugal VSD chiller (see attached visualization) seems a LOT more generous (more efficient) at low part loads than the one I’ve generated which matches my rep’s data… I might share a visual of my custom curve for comparison once I’m dead-sure it’s accurate – I’m trying to clarify a few things with my rep right now.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">~Nick</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"><img height="37" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB" width="119" border="0"></span><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #2d4d5e"></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #2d4d5e"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #2d4d5e">NICK CATON, E.I.T.</span></b><b><span style="COLOR: #2d4d5e"></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: #cc9900">PROJECT ENGINEER</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: #cc9900"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #2d4d5e">25501 west valley parkway</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #2d4d5e">olathe ks 66061</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #2d4d5e">direct 913 344.0036</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #2d4d5e">fax 913 345.0617</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #2d4d5e">Check out our new web-site @ </span></i><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"><a title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com" href="http://www.smithboucher.com/" target="_blank"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue"> </span></u><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> John T. Forester [mailto:<a href="mailto:JohnTF@BVHis.com" target="_blank">JohnTF@BVHis.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 03, 2010 10:29 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nick Caton; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] Chiller Curves (oh boy!)</span></p></div></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">Nick,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">When defining a centrifugal chiller in eQuest, one of the items on the Basic Specifications tab under the Design vs. Rated Conditions is a Design/Max Cap ratio. By default, this is 92% for a water cooled unit. I believe this gets at the discussion in the help pages that talks about maximum capacity versus design capacity and how the chiller vendor will spec a piece of equipment. Typically, vendors don’t often get asked (or provide) what the “Maximum” capacity of a spec’d unit is. Therefore the performance data that they provide are at “design conditions.”</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">If you change the chiller type to a reciprocating chiller, this “Design/Max Cap” ratio is disabled and the default specified condition changes from “Design Conditions” to “Rated Conditions.” This suggests that there is little “extra” capacity when a selection is done for that type of chiller.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">If you do get “maximum capacity” data and create curves from that data, you will want to change the Design/Max Cap ratio to 1.0 so eQuest knows that there isn’t any spare capacity at the chiller. Also if the data points you are using to normalize your curves are different than the design conditions for your energy model, you will want to change the “Chiller Specified at” value to “Rated Conditions” and enter the rated conditions for CHW temp, CW temp and CW gpm/ton to match your normalized curves.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">Hope this helps,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">John</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: gray">John T. Forester, P.E., LEED AP, Mechanical Design Engineer </span><strong><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: #0000a0">I BVH Integrated Services I</span></strong><strong><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: black"> </span></strong><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: gray">617.658.9008 tel </span><strong><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: #0000a0">I</span></strong><strong><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: gray"> </span></strong><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: gray">617.244.3753 fax</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: #0000a0"> <strong><span>I</span></strong></span><strong><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: gray"> </span></strong><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: gray">One Gateway Center Suite 506, Newton MA 02458 </span><strong><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: #0000a0">I <a href="http://www.bvhis.com/" target="_blank">www.bvhis.com</a> I Hartford ● New Haven ● Boston</span></strong><span style="COLOR: gray"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center"><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Nick Caton<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 03, 2010 11:03 AM<br><b>To:</b> Carol Gardner; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Chiller Curves (oh boy!)</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">Thanks for the response Carol!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">That 120% load case is what I’m getting at – let me try to explain a little further:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">In the DOE2 help files, the vocabulary for centrifugal chillers is “design capacity” and “maximum capacity,” where “design” means the capacity at the rated or designed conditions (at which you define / specify your chiller), and “maximum” means the capacity the chiller is really capable of under the same conditions if it runs balls-out (maximum power to the refrigerant drive).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">The help file excerpt I copied below with the red line is pretty explicitly telling us to normalize the part load values to the <u>maximum</u> capacity for centrifugal chillers. I’ve highlighted a second line for clarity. The EDR guidelines I linked below are saying you can instead normalize to the <u>design</u> capacity for the EIR-PLR curve if that’s all your field measurements or manufacturer rep can provide.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">I’m asking – are both approaches right? </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">My first and second questions are kinda tied together… How would choosing to normalize to either the maximum or design conditions affect how we should handle the DESIGN-PLR ratio, if at all?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">~Nick.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"><img height="37" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB" width="119" border="0"></span><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #2d4d5e"></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #2d4d5e"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #2d4d5e">NICK CATON, E.I.T.</span></b><b><span style="COLOR: #2d4d5e"></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: #cc9900">PROJECT ENGINEER</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: #cc9900"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #2d4d5e">Check out our new web-site @ </span></i><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"><a title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com" href="http://www.smithboucher.com/" target="_blank"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue"> </span></u><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Carol Gardner [mailto:<a href="mailto:cmg750@gmail.com" target="_blank">cmg750@gmail.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 02, 2010 10:04 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nick Caton<br><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Chiller Curves (oh boy!)</span></p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt">Let me take a crack at this. If by design capacity you mean the chiller running at 100% load, you would create the curve(s) by normalizing around your ARI design conditions i.e. the PLR curve would be 1.0 at this point, call it ARI Cap and the other points would be 90% Cap/ARI Cap, 80% Cap/ARI Cap, etc. The same would go for your temp curves. If, however, your chiller is operating at 120%, or some such other level, I would normalize the curve around the ARI design conditions of the chiller at 120%. I had to do this for a VRV hp that was selected at the 120% design condition.<br>
<br>I find this from the DOE2 manual the most helpful:</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://volume2dictionary.htm/" target="_blank">Volume 2: Dictionary</a><span> > </span><a href="http://hvaccomponents.htm/" target="_blank">HVAC Components</a><span> > </span><a href="http://curvefit.htm/" target="_blank"><span style="BACKGROUND: #316ac5; COLOR: white">CURVE</span>-<span style="BACKGROUND: #316ac5; COLOR: white">FIT</span></a><span> > </span><a href="http://inputtypedata.htm/" target="_blank">INPUT-TYPE = DATA</a></p>
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<h5>INDEPENDENT-2</h5>
<p>Used for all <span style="BACKGROUND: #316ac5; COLOR: white">curves</span> having two independent variables. A list of up to twenty values of the second independent variable. The number of values should be the same as for DEPENDENT.</p>
<p><b><span>Example 1</span></b>: defining a <span style="BACKGROUND: #316ac5; COLOR: white">curve</span> by inputting a set of data points.</p>
<p>A packaged system (PZS) has cooling performance significantly different from that used in the default model. The manufacturer lists the data shown in Table 46, for cooling capacity, at 2000 cfm design air flow rate, as a function of outside dry-bulb temperature and entering wet-bulb temperature.</p>
<p><a name="12ee46097cbd0488__Ref490744859"></a><a name="12ee46097cbd0488__Ref490744804"></a>Table 46 Cooling capacity (kBtu/hr) vs. temperature</p>
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<p style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center"><b>Outside<br>Dry-bulb</b></p></td>
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<p style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center"><b>Entering Wet-bulb</b></p></td></tr>
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<p style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center"><b>72F</b></p></td>
<td style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; BACKGROUND: aqua; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; WIDTH: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid" valign="top" width="96">
<p style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center"><b>67F</b></p></td>
<td style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; BACKGROUND: aqua; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; WIDTH: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid" valign="top" width="96">
<p style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center"><b>62F</b></p></td></tr>
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<td style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; WIDTH: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none" valign="top" width="96">
<p style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center">85F</p></td>
<td style="PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; WIDTH: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in" valign="top" width="96">
<p style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center">69</p></td>
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<p style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center">65</p></td>
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<p style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center">60</p></td></tr>
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<p style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center">95F</p></td>
<td style="PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; WIDTH: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in" valign="top" width="96">
<p style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center">68</p></td>
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<p style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center">63 (ARI)</p></td>
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<p style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center">57</p></td></tr>
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<td style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; WIDTH: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none" valign="top" width="96">
<p style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center">105F</p></td>
<td style="PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; WIDTH: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in" valign="top" width="96">
<p style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center">65</p></td>
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<p style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center">60</p></td>
<td style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; WIDTH: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none" valign="top" width="96">
<p style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center">53</p></td></tr>
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<p style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center">115F</p></td>
<td style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; WIDTH: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid" valign="top" width="96">
<p style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center">62</p></td>
<td style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; WIDTH: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid" valign="top" width="96">
<p style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center">55</p></td>
<td style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; WIDTH: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid" valign="top" width="96">
<p style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center">49</p></td></tr></tbody></table></div></div>
<p> </p>
<p>In this example the independent variables are the entering wet-bulb temperature and the outside dry-bulb temperature. Because there are two independent variables and they have units of temperature, we input a <span style="BACKGROUND: #316ac5; COLOR: white">curve</span> of TYPE BI-QUADRATIC-T using the given data points. The dependent variable is not the cooling capacity listed in the table but rather the cooling capacity divided by the cooling capacity at the ARI rating point (95 F outside dry-bulb and 67 F entering wet-bulb). In other words, the capacities should be normalized to the ARI rating point., as shown in Table 47</p>
<p><a name="12ee46097cbd0488__Ref490745029">Table </a>47 Normalized capacity vs. temperature</p>
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<p style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center"><b>Outside<br>Dry-bulb</b></p></td>
<td style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; BACKGROUND: aqua; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; WIDTH: 3in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none" valign="top" width="288" colspan="3">
<p style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center"><b>Entering Wet-bulb</b></p></td></tr>
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<td style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; BACKGROUND: aqua; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; WIDTH: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid" valign="top" width="96">
<p style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center"><b>72F</b></p></td>
<td style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; BACKGROUND: aqua; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; WIDTH: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid" valign="top" width="96">
<p style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center"><b>67F</b></p></td>
<td style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; BACKGROUND: aqua; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; WIDTH: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid" valign="top" width="96">
<p style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center"><b>62F</b></p></td></tr>
<tr>
<td style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; WIDTH: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none" valign="top" width="96">
<p style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center">85F</p></td>
<td style="PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; WIDTH: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in" valign="top" width="96">
<p style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center">1.095</p></td>
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<p style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center">1.032</p></td>
<td style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; WIDTH: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none" valign="top" width="96">
<p style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center">0.952</p></td></tr>
<tr>
<td style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; WIDTH: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none" valign="top" width="96">
<p style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center">95F</p></td>
<td style="PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; WIDTH: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in" valign="top" width="96">
<p style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center">1.079</p></td>
<td style="PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; WIDTH: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in" valign="top" width="96">
<p style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center">1.0 (ARI)</p></td>
<td style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; WIDTH: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none" valign="top" width="96">
<p style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center">0.905</p></td></tr>
<tr>
<td style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; WIDTH: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none" valign="top" width="96">
<p style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center">105F</p></td>
<td style="PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; WIDTH: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in" valign="top" width="96">
<p style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center">1.032</p></td>
<td style="PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; WIDTH: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in" valign="top" width="96">
<p style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center">0.952</p></td>
<td style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; WIDTH: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none" valign="top" width="96">
<p style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center">0.841</p></td></tr>
<tr>
<td style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; WIDTH: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid" valign="top" width="96">
<p style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center">115F</p></td>
<td style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; WIDTH: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid" valign="top" width="96">
<p style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center">0.984</p></td>
<td style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; WIDTH: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid" valign="top" width="96">
<p style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center">0.873</p></td>
<td style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; WIDTH: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid" valign="top" width="96">
<p style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center">0.778</p></td></tr></tbody></table></div></div>
<p> </p>
<p>The <span style="BACKGROUND: #316ac5; COLOR: white">CURVE</span>-<span style="BACKGROUND: #316ac5; COLOR: white">FIT</span> input will look like the following:</p>
<p>CAP-<span style="BACKGROUND: #316ac5; COLOR: white">CURVE</span>-1 = <span style="BACKGROUND: #316ac5; COLOR: white">CURVE</span>-<span style="BACKGROUND: #316ac5; COLOR: white">FIT</span><br>TYPE = BI-QUADRATIC-T<br>
INPUT-TYPE = DATA<br>DEPENDENT = (1.000,1.079,0.905,1.032,0.952,0.841,<br> 0.984,0.873,0.778,1.095,1.032,0.952) ..<br>IN-TEMP1 = ( 67, 72, 62, 72, 67, 62,<br> 72, 67, 62, 72, 67, 62) ..<br>
IN-TEMP2 = ( 95, 95, 95, 105, 105, 105,<br> 115, 115, 115, 85 85, 85) ..</p>
<p><b><span>Example 2:</span></b> Defining a <span style="BACKGROUND: #316ac5; COLOR: white">curve</span> by inputting coefficients</p>
<p>We want a furnace to have a constant efficiency as a function of part load. To do this we must replace the default FURNACE-HIR-FPLR with a <span style="BACKGROUND: #316ac5; COLOR: white">curve</span> that will give a constant efficiency. The <span style="BACKGROUND: #316ac5; COLOR: white">curve</span> TYPE is QUADRATIC in the part load ratio (PLR). PLR correction <span style="BACKGROUND: #316ac5; COLOR: white">curves</span> are always multiplied by the unit capacity, not the load, to obtain the energy (fuel or electricity) use. Thus the <span style="BACKGROUND: #316ac5; COLOR: white">curve</span> we want is: 0.0 + 1.0*PLR + 0.0*PLR*PLR. The input will look like:</p>
<p>New-Furnace-HIR-fPLR = <span style="BACKGROUND: #316ac5; COLOR: white">CURVE</span>-<span style="BACKGROUND: #316ac5; COLOR: white">FIT</span><br>TYPE = QUADRATIC<br>INPUT-TYPE = COEFFICIENTS<br>
COEFFICIENTS = (0.0,1.0,0.0) ..</p>
<p>Then in the SYSTEM command we include:</p>
<p> FURNACE-HIR-FPLR = New-Furnace-HIR-fPLR</p></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 3:21 PM, Nick Caton <<a href="mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com" target="_blank">ncaton@smithboucher.com</a>> wrote:</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">Hi everyone!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">I think I have <u>finally</u> wrapped my mind completely around custom chiller performance curves for a centrifugal VSD chiller. I’ve got a few specific questions now that I’m on the other side of the fence:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">1.</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 7pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </span><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">Is it necessary for the data points of a part load efficiency curve (EIR-FPLR&dT in my case) to originate from data with a 1.0 (100%) PLR ratio corresponding to a maximum vs. a design load capacity? From what I gather in <a href="http://www.energydesignresources.com/Portals/0/documents/DesignGuidelines/EDR_DesignGuidelines_%20HVAC_Simulation.pdf" target="_blank">the EDR reference</a> (re: “Method 2” on PDF page 32/65), this curve can be generated using part-load readings assuming a <u>design</u> capacity at the 100% loading mark… but the DOE2 help entry for “EIR-FPLR” seems to suggest otherwise (copied below – see highlighted line).</span></p>
<p><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">2.</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 7pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </span><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">If the above part load efficiency curve is created based on data where the 100% loading point corresponds to the maximum (not design) capacity, should “DESIGN-PLR” (the ratio of design to maximum capacity) be set to 1.00 and the capacity of the chiller be specified at its maximum (not design) for the design/rated conditions? As I write this question it sounds like I’m chasing my tail – someone straighten me out =)!</span></p>
<p><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">3.</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 7pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </span><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">When you veterans finish a project with sets of custom performance curves, do you have any suggestions for a naming scheme for future reference/re-use? I’m currently thinking to keep the curves grouped in an .inp snippet I for importing along with an equipment cutsheet… but I’m certain I’ll forget the all the details as quickly as humanly possible when this project is behind me…</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.25in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"> ~Nick</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"><img height="37" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB" width="119" border="0"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="COLOR: #2d4d5e"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="COLOR: #2d4d5e">NICK CATON, E.I.T.</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: #cc9900">PROJECT ENGINEER</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #2d4d5e">25501 west valley parkway</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #2d4d5e">olathe ks 66061</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #2d4d5e">direct 913 344.0036</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #2d4d5e">fax 913 345.0617</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #2d4d5e">Check out our new web-site @ </span></i><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"><a title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com" href="http://www.smithboucher.com/" target="_blank"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue"> </span></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">EIR-FPLR</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Takes the U-name of a curve that adjusts the electric input ratio as a function of</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Symbol">· </span><u>The part load ratio (PLR)</u> – The PLR is defined as the ratio of the hourly load to the hourly capacity; Load / Cap<sub>hour</sub></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Symbol">· </span><u>The evaporator/condenser dT</u> - The temperature differential between the condenser and leaving chilled-water. The meaning of the condenser temperature varies according to condenser type. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 2.7pt">For most chillers, the dT has a relatively small effect on part-load performance. However, for variable-speed centrifugal chillers, the effect of dT is as important as the PLR. This is because the pressure rise across the impeller is proportional to the square of the impeller’s speed. Unless some form on condenser temperature relief is employed to reduce the temperature (and pressure) differential across the chiller at part load, the performance of a variable-speed chiller may not be significantly different than that of a constant-speed chiller.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">To model power consumption as a function of the PLR only, use a CURVE-FIT of TYPE = QUADRATIC or CUBIC. To model as a function of both PLR and dT, use a BI-QUADRATIC-RATIO&DT curve. <b><span style="COLOR: red">The curve must be normalized to 1.0 at full load and the rated temperature differential. </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="COLOR: red">Note that, for centrifugal chillers, ‘full load’ is defined as the ‘maximum capacity’, not the ‘design capacity’.</span></b> Refer to the DESIGN-PLR keyword for more information.</p>
<p style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"> </p></div></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><br>_______________________________________________<br>Equest-users mailing list<br><a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org" target="_blank">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org</a><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Carol Gardner PE</p></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>Equest-users mailing list<br><a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org" target="_blank">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org</a><br>
To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to <a href="mailto:EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG">EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG</a><br><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Pedro Peixeiro <<a href="mailto:ppeixeiro@lnec.pt">ppeixeiro@lnec.pt</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 14:38:50 +0000<br>Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Double Facades - EPlus<br>
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">Hi Francisco.<br><br>If your facade is made up of only opaque construction and/or you want to make a simple study of it, you can check the SurfaceProperty:ExteriorNaturalVentedCavity. For more detailed modelling, or if you facade is made of glassings, you should model the facade as a independent zone, and use airflownetwork objects to setup openings, virtual partitions and airflow.<br>
Convection on the outside of the facade shouldn't be much of a problem, the tricky one is the inside convection. EPlus doens't have an algorithm specified for these kinds of building elements, so you'll have to choose the one that best suits your needs.<br>
<br>Pedro.<br><br><br><br>On 22-03-2011 18:44, Francisco Massucci wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>Hi,</div>
<div> </div>
<div> Does anyone knows how to modeling double facedes in EnergyPlus? Like a lightweight ceramic facede, located 10cm away from a traditional concrete masonry wall. I figured if modeling an thin extra zone could be work, or if its possible to work with the second facede only as a huge shading device. <span lang="en"><span title="Clique para
mostrar traduções alternativas">I think</span> <span title="Clique para mostrar traduções
alternativas">the most</span> <span title="Clique para mostrar traduções alternativas">important</span> <span title="Clique para mostrar traduções
alternativas">in these</span> <span title="Clique para mostrar traduções alternativas">cases is the</span> <span title="Clique para mostrar
traduções alternativas">amount</span> <span title="Clique para mostrar traduções alternativas">of natural </span><span title="Clique para mostrar
traduções alternativas">convection</span> <span title="Clique para mostrar traduções alternativas">that</span> <span title="Clique para mostrar traduções
alternativas">occur around the</span> <span title="Clique para mostrar traduções alternativas">exterior of the</span> <span title="Clique para mostrar
traduções alternativas">building but <span title="Clique para mostrar traduções alternativas">none of my</span> <span title="Clique para mostrar
traduções alternativas">proposals,</span> <span title="Clique para mostrar traduções
alternativas">this</span> <span title="Clique
para mostrar traduções alternativas">fact is taken</span> <span title="Clique para mostrar traduções
alternativas">into</span> <span title="Clique
para mostrar traduções alternativas">account.<br></span></span></span></div>
<div><span lang="en"><span title="Clique para mostrar
traduções alternativas"><span title="Clique para
mostrar traduções alternativas"></span></span></span>I appreciate if anyone can help me,</div>
<div>Sorry about my bad english.</div>
<div><br>Francisco Massucci</div>
<div>Architect - São Paulo - Brasil</div><pre><fieldset></fieldset>
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</pre></blockquote><br></div><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Evgenia Gorbachinsky <<a href="mailto:gorbachinsky@gmail.com">gorbachinsky@gmail.com</a>><br>To: <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 13:51:36 -0400<br>Subject: [Bldg-sim] Corporate Deduction, comparison of the proposed design with the baseline design by ASHRAE 90.1-2001<br>Good Afternoon,<br><br>Our client would like to get a tax deduction reducing the building's energy and power costs by 50% in comparison to a building meeting requirements set by ASHRAE Standard 90.1-2001. This standard does not have Appendix G. Could anybody help to understand,please, how I can do it. <br>
Do I need to Use section 11 ( Energy cost budget method) of the standard or I need to use the same systems and plants in both cases, but different lighting density, building envelope and energy rates according to the actual design for the proposed design and Standard 90.1-2001 for the baseline design? <br>
<br><br>Thanks.<br clear="all"><br>-- <br>With best wishes,<br>Genia Gorbachinsky<br><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: "Deru, Michael" <<a href="mailto:Michael.Deru@nrel.gov">Michael.Deru@nrel.gov</a>><br>
To: Evgenia Gorbachinsky <<a href="mailto:gorbachinsky@gmail.com">gorbachinsky@gmail.com</a>>, "<a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a>><br>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 12:04:52 -0600<br>Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Corporate Deduction, comparison of the proposed design with the baseline design by ASHRAE 90.1-2001<br>
<div lang="EN-US" vlink="purple" link="blue">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">Dear Genia,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">Please see the DOE web site for more information about the tax deduction and the following NREL report for guidance on calculating the savings. In addition, DOE and NREL are working on a simplified tool for the tax deduction calculations that will be available in April.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"><a href="http://www1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/tax_incentives.html" target="_blank">http://www1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/tax_incentives.html</a> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"><a href="http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy07osti/40467.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy07osti/40467.pdf</a> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">Michael</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'">Michael Deru, Ph.D.</span><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'">Senior Engineer II</span><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'">Commercial Buildings Research Group</span><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'">National Renewable Energy Laboratory</span><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'">303-384-7503 (o)</span><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'">303-725-3528 (c)</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"></span></p>
<div style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Evgenia Gorbachinsky<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 23, 2011 11:52 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Bldg-sim] Corporate Deduction, comparison of the proposed design with the baseline design by ASHRAE 90.1-2001</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Good Afternoon,<br><br>Our client would like to get a tax deduction reducing the building's energy and power costs by 50% in comparison to a building meeting requirements set by ASHRAE Standard 90.1-2001. This standard does not have Appendix G. Could anybody help to understand,please, how I can do it. <br>
Do I need to Use section 11 ( Energy cost budget method) of the standard or I need to use the same systems and plants in both cases, but different lighting density, building envelope and energy rates according to the actual design for the proposed design and Standard 90.1-2001 for the baseline design? <br>
<br><br>Thanks.<br clear="all"><br>-- <br>With best wishes,<br>Genia Gorbachinsky</p></div></div><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: "Robert Gengelbach" <<a href="mailto:rgengelbach@sustainablemech.com">rgengelbach@sustainablemech.com</a>><br>
To: "'Evgenia Gorbachinsky'" <<a href="mailto:gorbachinsky@gmail.com">gorbachinsky@gmail.com</a>>, <<a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a>><br>Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 14:05:04 -0400<br>
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Corporate Deduction, comparison of the proposed design with the baseline design by ASHRAE 90.1-2001<br>
<div lang="EN-US" vlink="purple" link="blue">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">There are specific rules for the procedure included in the NREL/TP 550-40467. You are supposed to follow the 90.1-2004 Appendix G (since to 2001 does not have an Appendix G) you are also supposed to use many utilization and tstat schedules from California Title 24. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Cambria','serif'"><img height="80" alt="cid:image003.png@01C9AB43.F0BEE290" width="268"></span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Cambria','serif'">Robert Gengelbach, PE, BEMP, LEED</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Cambria','serif'">®</span><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Cambria','serif'"> </span></b><b><span style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Cambria','serif'">AP BD+C</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Cambria','serif'">Sustainable Mechanical Design Associates, Inc</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">89 Monroe Center NW</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">Suite 302</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">Grand Rapids, MI 49503</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">P: (616) 776-9009</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">F: (616) 776-9010</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">C: (616) 570-2329</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"><a href="http://www.sustainablemech.com/" target="_blank"><span style="COLOR: blue">www.sustainablemech.com</span></a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"><a href="mailto:rgengelbach@sustainablemech.com" target="_blank"><span style="COLOR: blue">rgengelbach@sustainablemech.com</span></a></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: green; FONT-FAMILY: Webdings">P</span><b><i><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: navy"> </span></i></b><b><i><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: green">Please print only if necessary</span></i></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Evgenia Gorbachinsky<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 23, 2011 1:52 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Bldg-sim] Corporate Deduction, comparison of the proposed design with the baseline design by ASHRAE 90.1-2001</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Good Afternoon,<br><br>Our client would like to get a tax deduction reducing the building's energy and power costs by 50% in comparison to a building meeting requirements set by ASHRAE Standard 90.1-2001. This standard does not have Appendix G. Could anybody help to understand,please, how I can do it. <br>
Do I need to Use section 11 ( Energy cost budget method) of the standard or I need to use the same systems and plants in both cases, but different lighting density, building envelope and energy rates according to the actual design for the proposed design and Standard 90.1-2001 for the baseline design? <br>
<br><br>Thanks.<br clear="all"><br>-- <br>With best wishes,<br>Genia Gorbachinsky</p></div></div><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: "Hensen, J.L.M." <<a href="mailto:j.hensen@tue.nl">j.hensen@tue.nl</a>><br>
To: "<a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a>>, "<a href="mailto:ibpsausa@lists.onebuilding.org">ibpsausa@lists.onebuilding.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:ibpsausa@lists.onebuilding.org">ibpsausa@lists.onebuilding.org</a>>, "<a href="mailto:esp-r@lists.strath.ac.uk">esp-r@lists.strath.ac.uk</a>" <<a href="mailto:esp-r@lists.strath.ac.uk">esp-r@lists.strath.ac.uk</a>><br>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 19:08:01 +0100<br>Subject: [Bldg-sim] fully funded PhD position at TU Eindhoven<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Dear all,</span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">We currently have a fully funded building performance simulation PhD position available. The project is a part of the just started Dutch research project “Climate Proof Cities” <span style="COLOR: #1f497d"><a href="http://knowledgeforclimate.climateresearchnetherlands.nl/nl/25222878-Climate_Proof_Cities.html" target="_blank">http://knowledgeforclimate.climateresearchnetherlands.nl/nl/25222878-Climate_Proof_Cities.html</a> </span> which involves a large number of universities and research institutes. The aim of this programme is to generate knowledge for adapting the built environment in order to cope with future climate change.</span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Details about the vacancy “</span>Climate<span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </span>change<span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </span>adaptation<span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </span>measures:<span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </span>adaptive<span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </span>buildings<span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </span>and<span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </span>occupants” are at<span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </span></span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"><a href="http://jobs.tue.nl/wd/plsql/wd_portal.show_job?p_web_site_id=3085&p_web_page_id=109720&p_order_by=" target="_blank">http://jobs.tue.nl/wd/plsql/wd_portal.show_job?p_web_site_id=3085&p_web_page_id=109720&p_order_by=</a></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Please don't hesitate to contact me for further information.<br><br>I would appreciate it very much if you could forward this message to potential applicants.<br>
<br>Thanks in advance!<br>Jan</span></p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: red">........................................</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: green">prof. dr. ir. Jan L.M. Hensen </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: red">| </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: green">Eindhoven</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: black"> </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: green">University of Technology</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: red">| </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: green">Building Physics & Systems</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: red">| </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: green">P.O. Box 513 - VRT6.18</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: red">| </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: green">5600 MB EINDHOVEN, Netherlands </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: red">| </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: green">+31 (0)40 247 2988 </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: red">| </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: green"><a href="http://www.bwk.tue.nl/bps/hensen" target="_blank">www.bwk.tue.nl/bps/hensen</a> </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: #1f497d"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p></div></div><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Kerry Gorczynski <<a href="mailto:kgorczynski@olace.com">kgorczynski@olace.com</a>><br>
To: "<a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a>><br>Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 14:52:52 -0400<br>
Subject: [Bldg-sim] 90.1 Appendix G - Resizing Baseline Systems to Meet Unmet Load Requirements (G3.1.2.2)<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Hello Everyone,</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I know there have been quite a few posts in the past regarding the definition and clarification of unmet hours in an energy model. I had a question outside of that – particularly when the baseline system needs to be resized to meet the requirements of G3.1.2.2:</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">If unmet load hours in the p<i>roposed design </i>exceed the unmet load hours in the <i>baseline building </i>by more than 50, simulated capacities in the <i>baseline building </i>shall be decreased incrementally and the building resimulated until the unmet load hours are within 50 of the unmet load hours of the <i>proposed design</i>.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">When we do this, do we need to resize the CFM of the system to maintain the supply-air-to-room-air temperature difference of 20°F, etc. used in sizing the baseline? I could see this becoming a lengthy process of reducing cooling capacity, then fan CFM, etc. and was just wondering if anyone had any thoughts on it.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Thanks,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Kerry</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>Bldg-sim mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">Bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org" target="_blank">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>D.E.V.S.Kiran Kumar<br>Graduate Student<br>Building Technology & Construction Management Division<br>Indian Institute of Technology Madras<br>Mobile: +91 99622 47007<br>