So, if i have a large IT space with numerous data racks, the HVAC system could fall into the G3.1.1 Exception b that states that since it is thermally different than all other spaces around it, it can be modeled as its own system in the baseline model. This would reward/penalize as you guys are saying. <div>
<br></div><div>Now, to further the other part of the discussion, the definition of process energy stats any energy consumed in support of processes other than conditiong spaces and maintaining comfort and amenities for the occupants. This HVAC system would be maintaining "comfort" even though there is no occupants in the space?</div>
<div><br></div><div>Thanks for all the help guys, hope your monday is treating you well.</div><div><br></div><div>Rob<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 5:28 PM, Patrick J. O'Leary, Jr. <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:poleary1969@gmail.com">poleary1969@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
also note that if you're dealing with a small IT closet, or data room,
90.1 applies to comfort cooling applications. i.e. people comfort, not
machinery comfort. try getting a liebert unit per the efficiency
requirements of 90.1 chapter 6. probably won't happen. if you're just
dealing w/a small IT closet or small data room and it is served by a
packaged dx system i've just put them in both the proposed and baseline
since it constitutes a single thermal zone.<br>
<br>
but as far as process loads go, i typically include it/data in process
loads & haven't had that questioned yet. it does, after all, add
to the total process that reviewer's look for being 25% of the baseline
building cost.<div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
On 3/18/11 1:57 PM, Nick Caton wrote:
</div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">Assuming
we’re talking about 90.1, the definition for
process load reads something like “loads that don’t have anything
to do with HVAC…” so you could make the case that a small IT closet
split DX unit or thermostat-controlled exhaust fan is not a process
load, and
therefore the HVAC must be modeled as a system. Why would one <u>want</u>
to do this? You could demonstrate better performance with your
efficient
(?) system.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">On
the other hand, loads in small IT closest are commonly core
zones with 24/7 loads, and as a result any such system would be running
24/7 and/or
on a consistent basis. An offshoot is you could very simply roll any
A/C
for such spaces into the room’s W/SF, and there would potentially be
little
difference in consumed energy modeled. Why would one <u>want</u> to
do
this? Objectively: It’s easy/fast. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">If
those were the only two points of interest on the table, as
your reviewer I wouldn’t care either way.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">That
said, the two above paths result in a pretty different
baseline scenario: On the one hand you end up with a baseline system
against which your proposed system may excel or underperform against in
handling the data/IT room’s heat loads. In the other case you have
zero
direct conditioning of the loads in that space in either model, which
would have
to propagate into adjacent spaces/systems via partitions – which is in
most cases a step or two away from reality. Where one approach is
“removed”
from reality and the other may objectively “reward/punish” the
design decisions made to condition that space, I think it’s pretty
clear
which is the preferable judgment from a reviewer’s standpoint.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">Then
again, I’m not your reviewer ;). </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">~Nick</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"><img src="cid:part1.02090706.05020109@gmail.com" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB" height="37" width="119"></span><b><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(45, 77, 94)"></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(45, 77, 94)"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(45, 77, 94)">NICK
CATON, E.I.T.</span></b><b><span style="color:rgb(45, 77, 94)"></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;color:rgb(204, 153, 0)">PROJECT
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"><a href="http://www.smithboucher.com" title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10pt">www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span style="font-size:10pt;color:blue">
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</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border-style:solid none none;border-color:rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color;border-width:1pt medium medium;padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt">
<a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Otto Schwieterman<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, March 18, 2011 3:24 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Rob Hudson; <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Process Loads</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">Rob,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">You
can try but I really doubt if the reviewer will see it that
way. I always consider it its own HVAC system in the proposed model and
lump it
in with the one system per floor HVAC system in the baseline model.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">I
do not see much of a benefit for counting this as a process
load, maybe you can explain why you want to do this.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">Otto</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"> </span></p>
<div style="border-style:solid none none;border-color:rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color;border-width:1pt medium medium;padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt"> Rob
Hudson
[<a href="mailto:rdh4176@gmail.com" target="_blank">mailto:rdh4176@gmail.com</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, March 18, 2011 3:23 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Bldg-sim] Process Loads</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I have a question about definition and correct
interpretation. If I am modeling building that has a space with a data
rack and its own cooling system separate from the rest of the buildings
systems, is the cooling considered process energy because it is
"required" to be there similar to the data rack electrical energy?</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">thanks in advanced,<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
Rob Hudson</p>
</div>
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