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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>James,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>I do appreciate the heads up –
I’ve been reading the ongoing discussion with interest!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>In the particular case I
referenced, it didn’t seem a big deal to me at the time as to my
understanding my baseline supply and return fans were operating in tandem, but as
I think it through now, I see this might skew the results somewhat with regard
to fan energies in the airstreams. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>This has got me wondering: What,
if anything, does 90.1 or similar have to say regarding fan heat in the baseline
airstreams? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>I’ve developed a practice
in eQuest of intentionally specifying baseline fan motors as outside the
airstreams. I’ve done this specifically to not have their heat
incident on the airstreams, because the procedure I follow for calculating
baseline efficiencies (backing out the calculated fan energy, Pfan, from the prescribed
efficiencies), can become a potentially cumbersome/iterative process otherwise.
For example, a simulated baseline sizing run gives an airflow/capacity, from
which I calculate Pfan, which once entered and simulated affects the calculated
capacity, which affects the airflow, so I have to recalculate Pfan… and
so forth until the reported figures match my calculations. For one system
this is cake, but when I’ve got a bunch of baseline systems it’s
quite a pain.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>I recognize some others follow a
baseline efficiency procedure that don’t involve the Pfan for baseline heating/cooling
efficiency calculations, for whom baseline fan heat energy is a moot concern,
but for the moment that’s really another can of worms I’d rather
not open… I’d specifically like to hear if anyone knows of
what guidance is or isn’t out there for whether and to what extent
baseline fan heat should be incident on baseline airstreams. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Thanks again to everyone for
providing such continuously supportive and productive discussions – it makes
me proud to be a part of this community!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>~Nick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><img width=119 height=37
id="_x0000_i1026" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CBE3BA.58F19280"
alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB"></span><b><span style='font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>NICK CATON, E.I.T.</span></b><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900'>PROJECT ENGINEER<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>Smith &
Boucher Engineers</span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:#CC9900'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>25501 west
valley parkway<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>olathe ks 66061<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>direct 913
344.0036<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>fax 913
345.0617<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><a href="www.smithboucher.com"
title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:blue'> </span></u><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> James V Dirkes II,
PE [mailto:jvd2pe@tds.net] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 15, 2011 7:43 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nick Caton<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Bldg-sim] pro-rating fan power to supply/return fans per
90.1-2007?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Dear Nick,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>It’s not a big deal, but
the physics are a little different if you put some energy from the fan in the
Return air stream and some in the supply air. Some of the return air
energy is normally exhausted and the coil never sees it. Probably preaching
to the choir here, but can’t help mentioning it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><b><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>The
Building Performance Team<br>
</span></b><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:#1F497D'>James V. Dirkes II, P.E., LEED AP<br>
</span></b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:#1F497D'>1631 Acacia Drive NW<br>
Grand Rapids, MI 49504<br>
616 450 8653<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Nick Caton<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 15, 2011 5:00 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> James Hansen; bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] pro-rating fan power to supply/return fans per
90.1-2007?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='color:#1F497D'>Last
time I did this, I entered 0.00 kW/CFM for the return fans, and all of the
calculated kW/CFM for the supply fans – better to keep it in one place
imho to avoid the headache of explaining it. Just got news that project
wrapped up review with a silver rating this week =).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='color:#1F497D'>If you
wanted to distribute the power regardless, I’d do it by weighting with
the airflow amounts. Generally, I don’t think it matters, so long
as you can backtrack your steps if asked to explain yourself ;).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='color:#1F497D'>~Nick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='color:#1F497D'><img
border=0 width=119 height=37 id="Picture_x0020_1"
src="cid:image001.jpg@01CBE3BA.58F19280" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB"></span><b><span
style='font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>NICK CATON, E.I.T.</span></b><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
color:#CC9900'>PROJECT ENGINEER<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:#2D4D5E'>Smith & Boucher Engineers</span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#CC9900'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:#2D4D5E'>25501 west valley parkway<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:#2D4D5E'>olathe ks 66061<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:#2D4D5E'>direct 913 344.0036<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:#2D4D5E'>fax 913 345.0617<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='color:#1F497D'><a
href="www.smithboucher.com" title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:blue'> </span></u><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>James
Hansen<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 15, 2011 2:05 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Bldg-sim] pro-rating fan power to supply/return fans per
90.1-2007?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>App G says that if the proposed
building has return fans, the baseline building is to be modeled with them as
well, sized either at the minimum required to ensure ventilation, or 90% of the
supply volume, whichever is greater. And the fan power calculations show
that the KW allowance is for all supply, return, exhaust and relief fans
combined. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>How do you generally pro-rate the
fan power between supply and return fans in the baseline model?
Ultimately it probably doesn’t make too much difference, but is there an
actual ruling that tells you how to do this?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:teal'>GHT Limited<br>
</span></b><b><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><ns0:PersonName><span
style='color:black'>James Hansen</span></ns0:PersonName></span><span
style='color:black'>, PE, LEED AP<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Senior Associate</span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><ns0:Street><ns0:address><span
style='color:black'>1010 N. Glebe Rd, Suite 200</span></ns0:address></ns0:Street></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><ns0:place><ns0:City><span style='color:black'>Arlington</span></ns0:City><span
style='color:black'>, </span><ns0:State><span style='color:black'>VA</span></ns0:State><span
style='color:black'> </span><ns0:PostalCode><span style='color:black'>22201-4749</span></ns0:PostalCode></ns0:place></span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>703-338-5754 (Cell)</span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>703-243-1200 (Office)</span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>703-276-1376 (Fax)</span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:teal'><a href="http://www.ghtltd.com/"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>www.ghtltd.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='color:#31849B'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
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