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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>One additional piece of information I am interested in is the handling of Section G3.1.2.10 Exhaust Air Energy Recovery. In the actual design a 10,000 CFM ERV will be serving all the corridor spaces (9 in total). This unit will be 100% OA with energy recovery.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Section G3.1.2.10 states that systems over 5,000 CFM require modeling energy recovery in the baseline. So it would seem I need to model energy recovery on the PTAC serving the corridor(s). Right? To do this I would actually be modeling a Packaged Rooftop Unit with the efficiencies of a PTAC because it’s not easy to implement heat recovery on a PTAC in Energyplus.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The one twist to this is that in the 90.1 2007 Addendum w it states:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPS-BoldMT","serif"'>G3.1.2.10 Exhaust Air Energy Recovery<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPS-BoldMT","serif"'>Exceptions: </span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>If any of these exceptions apply, exhaust air<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>energy recovery shall not be included in the </span><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPS-ItalicMT","serif"'>baseline<o:p></o:p></span></i></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPS-ItalicMT","serif"'>building design.<o:p></o:p></span></i></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><u><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>i. Systems serving dwelling units in multifamily buildings.<o:p></o:p></span></u></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><u><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p><span style='text-decoration:none'> </span></o:p></span></u></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The corridor is not a dwelling unit, but it was worth pointing that addendum note out.</span><b><u><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></u></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormalCxSpMiddle style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;line-height:15.0pt'><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial Black","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Alan Jackson, LEED AP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormalCxSpMiddle style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;line-height:15.0pt'><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial Black","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Kling</span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial Black","sans-serif";color:gray'>Stubbins</span><span style='font-family:"Arial Black","sans-serif";color:gray'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jackson, Alan<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, February 28, 2011 9:54 AM<br><b>To:</b> Nick Caton<br><b>Cc:</b> bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] App G Baseline WSHP w Boiler Injection<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Nick,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Yes, it is well below 20,000 ft2 so I believe you are correct. Thanks for the help. I will proceed under the residential building system type.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;line-height:15.0pt'><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial Black","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Alan Jackson, LEED AP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;line-height:15.0pt'><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial Black","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Kling</span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial Black","sans-serif";color:gray'>Stubbins</span><span style='font-family:"Arial Black","sans-serif";color:gray'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Nick Caton [mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, February 28, 2011 9:32 AM<br><b>To:</b> Jackson, Alan; Cheney<br><b>Cc:</b> bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Bldg-sim] App G Baseline WSHP w Boiler Injection<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>So far as system type goes, consider that your building is first either Residential or Nonresidential, and your building type determines your baseline system. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The only reason you’d have both building types (and thus 2 baseline system types) is if you have non-predominant conditions per exceptions to G3.1.1. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>If you’ve got >20,000SF of egress/back-of-house spaces, you might pursue a second baseline system type declaring non-predominant conditions, but for simplicity I’d be inclined to lump it all under one baseline type as part of a residential building, unless told otherwise.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><img width=119 height=37 id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CBD82A.ED8ABE30" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB"></span><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'>NICK CATON, E.I.T.</span></b><b><span style='font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#CC9900'>PROJECT ENGINEER<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'>Smith & Boucher Engineers</span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'>25501 west valley parkway<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'>olathe ks 66061<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'>direct 913 344.0036<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'>fax 913 345.0617<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="www.smithboucher.com" title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue'> </span></u><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jackson, Alan<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, February 28, 2011 7:19 AM<br><b>To:</b> Cheney<br><b>Cc:</b> bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] App G Baseline WSHP w Boiler Injection<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Cheney<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hey, thanks for the response. I agree, I think hybrid is the way to go in this scenario.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>One other issue I came across, since I not as familiar modeling residential buildings, is the way that egress areas are treated. ASHRAE list residential spaces as only including “guest rooms, living quarters, private living space and sleeping quarters.”<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Does this mean the residential corridors and stairs need to be System 7, and not PTAC, since the building is greater than 5 stories?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thanks again,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;line-height:15.0pt'><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial Black","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Alan Jackson, LEED AP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;line-height:15.0pt'><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial Black","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Kling</span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial Black","sans-serif";color:gray'>Stubbins</span><span style='font-family:"Arial Black","sans-serif";color:gray'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Cheney [mailto:chenyu73@gmail.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 25, 2011 2:31 PM<br><b>To:</b> Jackson, Alan<br><b>Cc:</b> bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] App G Baseline WSHP w Boiler Injection<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Hi Jason,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I will choose Fossil/Elec. Hybrid and PTAC for your design. <br clear=all><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>Regards, </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>Cheney</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>LinkedIN @ </span><a href="http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/yu-cheney-chen/27/637/72b" target="_blank"><span style='font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/yu-cheney-chen/27/637/72b</span></a><span style='font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 10:21 AM, Jackson, Alan <<a href="mailto:ajackson@klingstubbins.com">ajackson@klingstubbins.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Hello, yes it’s another Appendix G Baseline question.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Typical Residential Tower system with water-cooled heat pumps for the dwelling units. Tower Loop is closed system with a heat injection boiler for the winters (northeast climate). Heat injection boiler is natural gas fired.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Is the Baseline “Electric and Other”? or “Fossil/Electric Hybrid”<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I have seen many postings about WSHP being modeled as “all electric” heating, but I am getting push back on this in the office because of the heat injection component. Any CIRs on this one? System is obviously very common.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Thanks<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;line-height:15.0pt'><span style='font-size:8.0pt'>Alan Jackson, LEED AP<br>HVAC Project Engineer / BIM Team Leader</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;line-height:15.0pt'><span style='font-size:8.0pt'>KlingStubbins</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>_______________________________________________<br>Bldg-sim mailing list<br><a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org" target="_blank">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org</a><br>To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to <a href="mailto:BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG">BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>