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pretty much so if you're attempting to use to the ashrae comfort tools
to invidually "model" every space in a building. i am using it at the
system level only, more as a measure of setpoint/airflow to show a
compliance with ashrae 55 as the systems i typically work with are
simpler (i.e. smaller packaged units with not a lot of differentiation
in use met/clo per system). <br>
<br>
the ashrae tool has its limitations but your question was about tools
that are specifically developed to perform only comfort calculations -
pmv, ppd, etc, - and that it does within the limitations of how it is
applied and what one is trying to use it for.<br>
<br>
On 1/26/11 6:18 AM, Tariq Abbas wrote:
<blockquote
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Sounds
impossible.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Information
in bulk zone modelling is only stored at the node (typically centre of
zone) and on surfaces with no additional info in between. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">There
are too many unknown parameters to determine thermal comfort in this
way to determine a gradient. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">You
would have to use CFD which can be tricky without experience of solar
radiation modelling (depending on package used).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; color: windowtext;"
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; color: windowtext;"
lang="EN-US"> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Patrick
J. O'Leary, Jr.<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 26 January 2011 02:53<br>
<b>To:</b> Arpan Bakshi<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Comfort tools<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">attached is a screenshot of the ashrae comfort
tool output<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 1/24/11 10:06 AM, Arpan Bakshi wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Comfort Gradients<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Are there other tools out there which are
specifically developed to perform only comfort calculations, PMV, PPD,
etc.?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">My understanding of the comfort models in
DesignBuilder, ApacheSim other energy modeling engines is that they
calculate comfort only at the central node of each thermal zone. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Is anyone aware of tools which calculate a
gradient of comfort within each thermal zone?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Arpan<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
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