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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>While parking garages may not be
considered “spaces” per ASHRAE, I think lighting should still be
modeled differently for baseline and proposed per Appendix G, and not
considered a process load. “Lighting power for parking garages and
building facades shall be modeled” per Table <span class=GramE>G3.1,</span>
and baseline lighting is determined per Section 9.2, where values for parking
garage lighting power appear in both the Building Area and Space-by-Space Tables.
You could attach these (different) lighting loads directly to a meter, as Nick
suggests, if you don’t model the parking garage as a space in the model.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>~Bill<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on"><b
style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><font size=2 color=black
face="Franklin Gothic Medium Cond"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Franklin Gothic Medium Cond";color:black;font-weight:bold;mso-bidi-font-weight:
normal;mso-no-proof:yes'>William</span></font></b></st1:City><b
style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><font size=2 color=black
face="Franklin Gothic Medium Cond"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Franklin Gothic Medium Cond";color:black;font-weight:bold;mso-bidi-font-weight:
normal;mso-no-proof:yes'> <st1:State w:st="on">Bishop</st1:State>, <st1:State
w:st="on">PE</st1:State></span></font></b></st1:place><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:
normal'><font size=2 color=black face="Franklin Gothic Medium Cond"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Medium Cond";color:black;
font-weight:bold;mso-bidi-font-weight:normal;mso-no-proof:yes'>, BEMP, LEED<sup>®</sup>
AP </span></font></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><font size=2
color="#006600" face="Franklin Gothic Medium Cond"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
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style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><font size=2 color=black
face="Franklin Gothic Medium Cond"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Franklin Gothic Medium Cond";color:black;font-weight:bold;mso-bidi-font-weight:
normal;mso-no-proof:yes'> </span></font></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:
normal'><font size=2 color=black face="Franklin Gothic Medium Cond"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Medium Cond";
color:black;font-weight:bold;mso-bidi-font-weight:normal;mso-no-proof:yes'>Pathfinder
Engineers & Architects LLP</span></font></b><b><font size=2 color=black
face="Franklin Gothic Medium Cond"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Franklin Gothic Medium Cond";color:black;font-weight:bold;mso-no-proof:yes'><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
9.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;mso-no-proof:yes'>Mechanical Engineer<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
5.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;mso-no-proof:yes'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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width=60 height=58 src="cid:image001.jpg@01CBB6F8.93F40AA0" v:shapes="_x0000_s1026"></span><![endif]><st1:Street
w:st="on"><font size=1 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:9.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'>134 South Fitzhugh Street</span></font></st1:Street><font
size=1 color=navy><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'><span
style='mso-tab-count:2'> </span></span></font><st1:City
w:st="on"><font size=1 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:9.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'>Rochester</span></font></st1:City><font
size=1 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'>, <st1:State w:st="on">NY</st1:State> <st1:PostalCode
w:st="on">14608</st1:PostalCode></span></font><font size=1 color=navy><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'><br>
</span></font><font size=1 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:9.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'>T: (585) 325-6004 </span></font><font
size=1 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;mso-no-proof:yes'>Ext. 114</span></font><font color=navy><span
style='color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'><span style='mso-tab-count:1'> </span></span></font><font
size=1 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'>F: (585) 325-6005</span></font><font size=1
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:9.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black;mso-no-proof:yes'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
9.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;mso-no-proof:yes'><a
href="mailto:wbishop@pathfinder-ea.com">wbishop@pathfinder-ea.com</a><span
style='mso-tab-count:1'> </span></span></font><font
size=1 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:9.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;mso-no-proof:yes'><a
href="http://www.pathfinder-ea.com/">www.pathfinder-ea.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=5 color=green face=Webdings><span
style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:Webdings;mso-bidi-font-family:Webdings;
color:green;mso-no-proof:yes'>P</span></font><font color=green><span
style='color:green;mso-no-proof:yes'><span
style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span></span></font><font size=1
color=green><span style='font-size:7.5pt;color:green;mso-no-proof:yes'>Sustainability
– the forest AND the trees.</span></font><font size=5 color=green
face=Webdings><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:Webdings;mso-bidi-font-family:
Webdings;color:green;mso-no-proof:yes'> P<span style='mso-tab-count:1'> </span></span></font><font
size=3 color=green face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";color:green'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Nick Caton<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, January 17, 2011
6:07 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Richard Auffermann; <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Bldg-sim] ASHRAE
90.1 - Appendix G - Parking Garages</span></font><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 color="#002060" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#002060'>These definitions
came up during review of one of my recent LEED projects. For future
reference, 90.1 questions may be seen by a group more keen to respond if you
post to the [bldg-rate] list.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 color="#002060" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#002060'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 color="#002060" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#002060'>I've got a definite
position if you'd like to hear:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 color="#002060" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#002060'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 color="#002060" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#002060'>1. As you point out,
per the definition of "<b><i><span style='font-weight:bold;font-style:
italic'>unconditioned space</span></i></b>," parking garages are
"…<u>not considered enclosed spaces</u>." Whether in
design it's actually conditioned or not has no bearing on this statement.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 color="#002060" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#002060'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 color="#002060" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#002060'>2. All of the
definitions for space classifications, and indeed the definition for "<b><i><span
style='font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>space</span></i></b>," start
with "an <u>enclosed space</u>..." Therefore no parking garage
can be considered "<b><i><span style='font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>conditioned</span></i></b>"
or "<b><i><span style='font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>semiheated</span></i></b>,"
or even as a "<b><i><span style='font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>space</span></i></b>."
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 color="#002060" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#002060'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 color="#002060" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#002060'>3. This also means
by extension (re: section 5.1.2): There are no envelope requirements for
parking garages, as they are not "<b><i><span style='font-weight:bold;
font-style:italic'>spaces</span></i></b>" of any classification.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 color="#002060" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#002060'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 color="#002060" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#002060'>If you reject this
approach and instead assert a parking garage can be a "<b><i><span
style='font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>conditioned space</span></i></b>,"
you'd be forced down a path of assigning identical heating/cooling systems to
parking garage spaces in both proposed and baseline models, per Table G3.1.1.b,
regardless of whether it's actually conditioned or not. Things might get
hairy if you're only heating or only cooling (I believe the other would need to
match the baseline serving the rest of the floor/building, as may apply).
I'd only suggest that requiring heating/cooling of parking garages in all
climates seems odd for an energy efficiency standard - you'd have to explain
that one to me ;).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 color="#002060" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#002060'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 color="#002060" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#002060'>If you do have
heating and/or cooling for a parking garage design, I'd personally stick with
points #1/#2 above and simply model such energies as a process load alongside
any mechanical ventilation systems, identical in both models. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 color="#002060" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#002060'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 color="#002060" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#002060'>I personally use
eQuest, and prefer to model parking garages as simply as a series of building
shades with a series of process/lighting loads attached directly to the meter.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 color="#002060" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#002060'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 color="#002060" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#002060'>All this is my take
on the situation. I think it’s pretty defensible, but there may
have been CIR’s I’m unaware of to the contrary – not that
precedent matters anymore...<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 color="#002060" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#002060'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 color="#002060" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#002060'>Hope that helps you
and others,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 color="#002060" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#002060'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 color="#002060" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#002060'>~Nick<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#002060" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#002060'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt'><img
border=0 width=119 height=37 id="Picture_x005f_x0020_1"
src="cid:image002.jpg@01CBB6F8.93F40AA0" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB"></span></font><b><font
color="#2d4d5e" face="Stylus BT"><span style='font-family:"Stylus BT";
color:#2D4D5E;font-weight:bold'><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color="#2d4d5e" face="Stylus BT"><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT";color:#2D4D5E;font-weight:bold'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color="#2d4d5e" face="Stylus BT"><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT";color:#2D4D5E;font-weight:bold'>NICK
CATON, E.I.T.</span></font></b><b><font size=3 color="#2d4d5e" face="Stylus BT"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT";color:#2D4D5E;font-weight:bold'><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color="#cc9900" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900'>PROJECT ENGINEER<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#2d4d5e" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>Smith & Boucher Engineers</span></font><font
size=1 color="#cc9900" face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#CC9900'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#2d4d5e" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>25501 west valley parkway<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on"><font size=2
color="#2d4d5e" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>olathe</span></font></st1:place></st1:City><font
size=2 color="#2d4d5e"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'> ks 66061<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#2d4d5e" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>direct 913 344.0036<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#2d4d5e" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>fax 913 345.0617<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><a href="www.smithboucher.com"
title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com"><font size=2><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>www.smithboucher.com</span></font></a></span></font><u><font
size=2 color=blue><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:blue'> </span></font></u><font
color="#1f497d"><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Consolas><span style='font-size:10.5pt'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
From: bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Richard Auffermann<br>
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 3:44 PM<br>
To: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</st1:PersonName><br>
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] ASHRAE 90.1 - Appendix G - Parking Garages<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Consolas><span style='font-size:10.5pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Consolas><span style='font-size:10.5pt'>I
have a questions about the modeling of Parking Garages for ASHRAE 90.1 Appendix
G energy model<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Consolas><span style='font-size:10.5pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Consolas><span style='font-size:10.5pt'>As
I was looking up the definition of a conditioned and semi-heated space in
Section 3 of ASHRAE 90.1 I noticed that under the definition of an
"unconditioned space" it states that "Crawlspaces, attics, and
parking garages with natural or mechanical ventilation are not considered
enclosed spaces." In addition the definition of "ventilation" is
"the process of supplying or removing air by natural or mechanical means
to or from any space. Such air is not required to have been conditioned."
Since the air is not required to be conditioned then the air can or cannot be
conditioned, does that mean that any parking garage conditioned or
unconditioned is not considered an enclosed space? If that is true then how do
you model a parking garage since all spaces are defined as being enclosed?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Consolas><span style='font-size:10.5pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Consolas><span style='font-size:10.5pt'>Richard
Auffermann<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Consolas><span style='font-size:10.5pt'>Design
Engineer<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Consolas><span style='font-size:10.5pt'>DAGHER
ENGINEERING, PLLC<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Consolas><span style='font-size:10.5pt'>29
Broadway, <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">New York</st1:City>, <st1:State
w:st="on">NY</st1:State> <st1:PostalCode w:st="on">10006</st1:PostalCode></st1:place><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Consolas><span style='font-size:10.5pt'>T.
212.480.2591 x122<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Consolas><span style='font-size:10.5pt'>F.
212.480.2654<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Consolas><span style='font-size:10.5pt'>rauffermann@dagherengineering.com<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Consolas><span style='font-size:10.5pt'>www.dagherengineering.com<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Consolas><span style='font-size:10.5pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Consolas><span style='font-size:10.5pt'>Save
Trees, Consider the Environment. Please print only when necessary.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Consolas><span style='font-size:10.5pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Consolas><span style='font-size:10.5pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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