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<p class=MsoNormal>James,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>I believe this is an unfortunate choice of the word “<b>spaces</b>”
in Appendix G. I think the intent is really that if you have a <b>zone</b> with
significantly different loads or schedules, it should not be placed on one of
the VAV systems serving other portions of the building. If the spaces you are
describing such as bathroom, stairs, or storage rooms are defined as their own
thermal zone, they should not be combined in a VAV system with spaces very
different loads or schedules, but rather have their own single zone
system. See Table G3.1 #s 7 and 8 for discussion regarding how to create
thermal zones. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Mike<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#D47500'>__________________________<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Michael Rosenberg </span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Senior Commercial Buildings Energy Analyst<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>ENERGY & ENVIRONMENT DIRECTORATE <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Pacific Northwest National Laboratory <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>2032 Todd Street <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Eugene, OR 97405 <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>(541) 844-1960 <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><a href="mailto:michael.rosenberg@pnl.gov"><span
style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>michael.rosenberg@pnl.gov</span></a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#D47500'><a href="http://www.pnl.gov"><span
style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>www.pnl.gov</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>James
Hansen<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 01, 2010 12:47 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Cheney<br>
<b>Cc:</b> bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Exceptions to G3.1.1, and how you model them?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thanks Cheney, but I’m not sure I follow your email.
I’ve already determined that, for example, a core bathroom could easily
have a peak load that is 10 Btu/hr-ft2 less than the peak average of the rest
of my spaces. Same goes for stairs, storage rooms, etc. So
doesn’t 90.1 REQUIRE that I model these separately?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>What CIR are you referencing?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Cheney
[mailto:chenyu73@gmail.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 01, 2010 12:36 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> James Hansen<br>
<b>Cc:</b> bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Exceptions to G3.1.1, and how you model them?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Hi James, <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>LEED CIR allows projects to demonstrate substantial energy
savings for well-designed HVAC system serving high process load spaces based on
the exception to G3.1.1. So the premise is "high occupancy or process
load" spaces, such as server rooms, natatoriums, before it comes to
the benchmark of 10 btu/h-ft2. Therefore, I guess your storage rooms, stairs,
mechanical rooms should not be modeled separately. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Regards, <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Cheney <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>I guess your storage rooms,
stairs, mechanical rooms, lobbies, etc. should not be <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 5:12 AM, James Hansen <<a
href="mailto:JHANSEN@ghtltd.com">JHANSEN@ghtltd.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I
was interested to see if anyone would share how they model the exception to
G3.1.1 in ASHRAE 90.1-2007 (or 04). This is the part that says when you
have a baseline building with system 5-8, you’re supposed to model system
3 or 4 for any spaces that “have occupancy or process loads or schedules
that differ significantly from the rest of the building.” It goes
on to say that basically the peak thermal loads must differ by 10 Btu / h-ft2
or more from the average of the other spaces, or that schedules must differ by
more than 40 full load hours per week, for this exception to apply.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I’ve
had reviewers question certain rooms that I’ve put on separate PSZ-AC
systems, and so I’ve sort of defaulted to putting almost all rooms on the
main systems (5-8). However, in looking at some of my recent
models, depending on interior loads and climate, the actual peak cooling load
on a square foot basis varies anywhere from 5-20 btu / h-ft2 range for
offices. So this means there is a big difference between those models
with 5 btu / h-ft2 peak and those with 20. For the models with 5, almost
every space in the building is going to be within +/- 10 btu/h-ft2 of that
average. However, those buildings that average around 20 will have many
rooms that are < 10 btu/h-ft2 peak (ie any internal space whose light + plug
load density is < 3.0 W / sq ft).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='color:red'>To use a simple example as a question: if your
particular office building averaged 20 btuh / h-ft2 peak cooling load, would
you model a separate PSZ-AC system for a core bathroom, whose peak cooling load
is only 3 btu/h-ft2?</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>There
are lots of rooms where I question whether I should do a separate PSZ-AC/HP
system (storage rooms, stairs, mechanical rooms, lobbies, etc). I can see
where these meet the 10 Btu/h-ft2 delta exception. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>So
does everyone really model a bunch of PSZ-AC systems based specifically on the
average peak thermal loads of the building?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I’m
thinking out loud, but if I had an office building that averaged on the low
side (5 Btu/h-ft2) for cooling peaks, it seems pretty easy to have a perimeter
conference room that exceeded 15 Btu / h-ft2 peak. Seems like an
exhaustive process to confirm this delta for every room in a model to determine
whether it needs its own system…<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Sorry
for the long email. Thanks!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='color:teal'>GHT Limited<br>
</span><span style='color:black'>James Hansen, PE, LEED AP</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Senior Associate</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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style='font-size:7.5pt;color:black'>1010 N. Glebe Rd, Suite 200</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;color:black'>Arlington, VA 22201-4749</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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