<html><body bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div>Hi to all</div><div><br></div><div>I am modeling a building in eQUEST</div><div>This building has a garage on the grind floor and the ceiling above is concrete the plenum bellow the concrete floor is heated with furnaces. Any ideas how this can be modeled in eQUESt. </div><div><br></div><div>Thanks.</div><div><br></div><div>Attiq<br><br>Sent from my iPhone</div><div><br>On Oct 14, 2010, at 3:00 PM, <a href="mailto:bldg-sim-request@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim-request@lists.onebuilding.org</a> wrote:<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>Send Bldg-sim mailing list submissions to</span><br><span> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org"><a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a></a></span><br><span></span><br><span>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit</span><br><span> <a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org"><a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org</a></a></span><br><span>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to</span><br><span> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim-request@lists.onebuilding.org"><a href="mailto:bldg-sim-request@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim-request@lists.onebuilding.org</a></a></span><br><span></span><br><span>You can reach the person managing the list at</span><br><span> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim-owner@lists.onebuilding.org"><a href="mailto:bldg-sim-owner@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim-owner@lists.onebuilding.org</a></a></span><br><span></span><br><span>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific</span><br><span>than "Re: Contents of Bldg-sim digest..."</span><br></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>Today's Topics:</span><br><span></span><br><span> 1. LEED modeling / air leakage / R-values (Paul Grahovac)</span><br><span> 2. Re: LEED modeling / air leakage / R-values (Cheney)</span><br><span> 3. Interpretation of Table G-A in ASHRAE 90.1 2007 (Rob Hudson)</span><br><span> 4. Re: Interpretation of Table G-A in ASHRAE 90.1 2007</span><br><span> (Carol Gardner)</span><br><span> 5. Re: Interpretation of Table G-A in ASHRAE 90.1 2007 (Paul Riemer)</span><br></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div>
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black">I am not a modeler, but I’ve worked a bit with the TRANE
Trace demo software a few years ago.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black">I’ve forgotten how to maneuver within it, so I was hoping
someone might comment on this question.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black">The software provided an air leakage rate for whatever wall
assembly is entered into the model.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black">I know from previous posts and responses that you do not change
the air leakage rate to account for any air barrier system that is to be
installed. I also know that if you do apply an air barrier leakage rate,
the model is very sensitive to it, and the model produces significant energy
savings because of it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black">And, it’s my understanding the R-value rating of the
insulation is used despite that the rating is based on more or less zero air
flow.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black">So, I’m wondering if the models, seeing both zero-air-flow
insulation and un-moderated leakage rates, ignore one or the other or somehow
produce a modulated result that reflects reduced wall assembly R-value from air
leakage through it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Paul
Grahovac, LEED AP<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Product
Manager <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">R-GUARD
Air & Water-Resistive Barrier <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">PROSOCO,
Inc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">3741
Greenway Circle<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Lawrence,
Kansas 66046<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">(785)
830-7355<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">(888)
376-3417 fax<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><a href="mailto:pgrahovac@prosoco.com"><a href="mailto:pgrahovac@prosoco.com">pgrahovac@prosoco.com</a></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">web
site <a href="http://www.prosoco.com/"><a href="http://www.prosoco.com/">http://www.prosoco.com/</a></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><div>Hi Paul, </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Probably I did not really understand your question. But my understanding is that R values of building assemblies will be mainly used for conductive calculation while air leakage rate through assemblies will be involved in convective one. In this case, there is no modulated result reflected the combined effect of the two parameters. Instead, they are represented respectively in the simulation results. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Cheers, </div>
<div>Cheney <br></div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Paul Grahovac <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:paul.grahovac@prosoco.com"><a href="mailto:paul.grahovac@prosoco.com">paul.grahovac@prosoco.com</a></a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class="gmail_quote">
<div lang="EN-US" vlink="purple" link="blue">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I am not a modeler, but I’ve worked a bit with the TRANE Trace demo software a few years ago.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I’ve forgotten how to maneuver within it, so I was hoping someone might comment on this question.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">The software provided an air leakage rate for whatever wall assembly is entered into the model.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I know from previous posts and responses that you do not change the air leakage rate to account for any air barrier system that is to be installed. I also know that if you do apply an air barrier leakage rate, the model is very sensitive to it, and the model produces significant energy savings because of it.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">And, it’s my understanding the R-value rating of the insulation is used despite that the rating is based on more or less zero air flow.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">So, I’m wondering if the models, seeing both zero-air-flow insulation and un-moderated leakage rates, ignore one or the other or somehow produce a modulated result that reflects reduced wall assembly R-value from air leakage through it.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Paul Grahovac, LEED AP</span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Product Manager </span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">R-GUARD Air & Water-Resistive Barrier </span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">PROSOCO, Inc.</span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">3741 Greenway Circle</span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Lawrence, Kansas 66046</span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">(785) 830-7355</span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">(888) 376-3417 fax</span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><a href="mailto:pgrahovac@prosoco.com" target="_blank"><a href="mailto:pgrahovac@prosoco.com">pgrahovac@prosoco.com</a></a></span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">web site <a href="http://www.prosoco.com/" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.prosoco.com/">http://www.prosoco.com/</a></a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </span></p></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>Bldg-sim mailing list<br><a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org" target="_blank"><a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org</a></a><br>
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</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div>Scenario:<br>I have an "intermediate" sized building (25,000 to 150,000 sqft) with several systems in it. can each system be determined separately or should each by a System type 5/6 depending on Heating source? I would like to label some small systems as a type 3/4 and some as type 5/6 depending on the area that is served by the system. <br>
<br>thanks for any opinions that people would like to share.<br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Rob Hudson<br>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div>Hi Rob,<br><br>If the systems serve distinctly different uses that comprise more than 20,000 sf you are fine. Otherwise, I would use the predominant heat source. It will be interesting to hear others opinions.<br><br>Carol<br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 6:29 AM, Rob Hudson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:rdh4176@gmail.com"><a href="mailto:rdh4176@gmail.com">rdh4176@gmail.com</a></a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
Scenario:<br>I have an "intermediate" sized building (25,000 to 150,000 sqft) with several systems in it. can each system be determined separately or should each by a System type 5/6 depending on Heating source? I would like to label some small systems as a type 3/4 and some as type 5/6 depending on the area that is served by the system. <br>
<br>thanks for any opinions that people would like to share.<br clear="all"><br>-- <br><font color="#888888">Rob Hudson<br>
</font><br>_______________________________________________<br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Carol Gardner PE<br>
<div style="visibility: hidden; display: inline;" id="avg_ls_inline_popup"></div><style type="text/css">#avg_ls_inline_popup { position:absolute; z-index:9999; padding: 0px 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; width: 240px; overflow: hidden; word-wrap: break-word; color: black; font-size: 10px; text-align: left; line-height: 13px;}</style>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div>
<div class="Section1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D">Exception a of G3.1.1 looks at your proposed systems and has the
noted 20,000 sf criteria.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D">Exceptions b & c are tied to thermal zones and are not tied to
your proposed system configuration.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D">The planned system boundaries alone are not sufficient to
trigger a separate lookup in table G.3.1.1A.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D">Often the mapping of system to zones is different between
proposed and baseline model.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D">Paul Riemer<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D">Dunham<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Carol
Gardner<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 14, 2010 9:39 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Rob Hudson<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org"><a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Interpretation of Table G-A in ASHRAE 90.1 2007<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in">Hi Rob,<br>
<br>
If the systems serve distinctly different uses that comprise more than 20,000
sf you are fine. Otherwise, I would use the predominant heat source. It will be
interesting to hear others opinions.<br>
<br>
Carol<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 6:29 AM,
Rob Hudson <<a href="mailto:rdh4176@gmail.com"><a href="mailto:rdh4176@gmail.com">rdh4176@gmail.com</a></a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in">Scenario:<br>
I have an "intermediate" sized building (25,000 to 150,000 sqft) with
several systems in it. can each system be determined separately or should
each by a System type 5/6 depending on Heating source? I would like to
label some small systems as a type 3/4 and some as type 5/6 depending on the
area that is served by the system. <br>
<br>
thanks for any opinions that people would like to share.<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
<span style="color:#888888">Rob Hudson<br>
</span><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><br>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
Carol Gardner PE<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>Bldg-sim mailing list</span><br><span><a href="mailto:Bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">Bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a></span><br><span><a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org</a></span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>