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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Dear All,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Are we talking about the assessment for
simple regulatory approval or are we talking about what a window really is. We
have found dramatic variations between NFRC values and what actually goes into
a building. I will not go into differences in measured infiltration rates as
that is too random but the window framing factor is fairly parametric. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The NFRC tables work on a sample window
size (lest say 900mm x 1200mm). This is quite a small window when compared to
most installations but;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'><![if !supportLists]><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>-<font size=1 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>For
windows smaller than the sample size the frame to galls factor is much higher, <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'><![if !supportLists]><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>-<font size=1 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Conversely
for large format windows commonly used in residential & commercial projects
the framing factor is much less. In some test cases we have calculated framing
factors changing from 18% to 8% or even less. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Depending on Glass system and framing
system this can create some interesting changes to thermal simulation results. One
of my colleagues will hopefully publish something on this late 2010 or early
2011. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>Mark Dewsbury<br>
<br>
Centre for Sustainable Architecture with Wood<br>
<st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceType w:st="on"><u1:place u2:st="on"><u1:PlaceType u2:st="on">School</st1:PlaceType></u1:PlaceType>
of <u1:PlaceName u2:st="on"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Architecture</st1:PlaceName></st1:place><br>
</u1:PlaceName><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceType w:st="on"></u1:place><u1:place u2:st="on"><u1:PlaceType u2:st="on">University</st1:PlaceType></u1:PlaceType>
of <u1:PlaceName u2:st="on"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Tasmania</st1:PlaceName></st1:place><br>
</u1:PlaceName></u1:place>Locked Bag 1324<br>
Launceston 7250<br>
ph: 03 6324 4089<br>
mob: 0417 290 807<br>
fax: 03 6324 4088<br>
</span></font><font color=navy><span style='color:navy'>e: <a
href="mailto:mark.dewsbury@utas.edu.au"
title="blocked::mailto:mark.dewsbury@utas.edu.au">mark.dewsbury@utas.edu.au</a></span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
"Times New Roman"'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
Alex Krickx [mailto:akrickx@seriousmaterials.com] <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Saturday, 17 July 2010 5:05
AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Nick Caton; D. Charlie
Curcija; Andy Hoover; Otto Schwieterman; bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Window
performance with frames</span></font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Hi Nick,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I think I know the answer to some of
your questions, for some others I’m happy to share my thoughts, and for
the remainder I have no clue.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I have always assumed that for the DOE-2
Glass Library that those files have Window5 report files behind them –
i.e. they’re not just single values for U, SHGC and VT. I could be
mistaken though.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Skipping number 2…<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I believe that Window5 is the same thing
as WINDOW (technically, I think it is called WINDOW5 and there is/soon will be
WINDOW6).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Lastly – I’ve looked into
some detail at how full frame U-factors are calculated and how they vary by
size. So as a brief tangent, I thought I would look at whether SHGC varies by
size too. I found that if a window had, say 0.5 SHGC COG and the window was 90%
glass, 10% frame (by area) the resulting full frame SHGC was GREATER than
(90%)*(0.5 SHGC). This means to me that the frame has some non-zero SHGC
contribution. Granted, it was small (if I remember correctly on the order of
0.1) but still – non-zero!!! In my head I assumed that the frame would
reflect additional heat through the window into the space – that may not
be correct, but it made sense with my results. I haven’t looked at
VT that closely but I would assume the same is true – that the frame adds
some small VT to the whole unit.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Alex Krickx<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color="#262f13" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:#262F13'>Alex Krickx<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=gray face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:9.0pt;color:gray'>Building Energy Specialist<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:8.0pt;color:#1F497D'><img border=0 width=121 height=42
id="_x0000_i1027" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CB27F0.28846270" alt="email_sig"></span></font><font
color="#1f497d"><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><st1:address w:st="on"><st1:Street w:st="on"><font size=1
color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:9.0pt;
color:#1F497D'>1250 Elko Dr</span></font></st1:Street><font size=1
color="#1f497d"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#1F497D'>, <st1:City
w:st="on">Sunnyvale</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">CA</st1:State> <st1:PostalCode
w:st="on">94089</st1:PostalCode></span></font></st1:address><font size=1
color="#1f497d"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#1F497D'>(t) 408.541.8124<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=gray face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:9.0pt;color:gray'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><i><font size=1 color="#1f497d" face=Arial><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D;font-weight:
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Arial;color:#1F497D;font-style:italic'> The information contained in this
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0mm 0mm 0mm'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
Nick Caton [mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com] <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, July 16, 2010 10:27
AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> D. Charlie Curcija; Andy
Hoover; Alex Krickx; Otto Schwieterman; bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [Bldg-sim] Window
performance with frames<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Mr. Curcija and everyone:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>If I may be so bold as to ask some
“dumb” questions,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=msolistparagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><font
size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;
color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>-<font size=1
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font color="#1f497d"><span
lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'>I’m an individual who regularly relies
on the DOE2 Glass library (a large excel file attached to any eQuest
installation) to find window constructions whose NFRC framed U-value, visible
transmittance, and SHGC/SC values best match those prescriptive values given
for actual design models and for 90.1 baseline models. Am I to understand
all of my past models have a “10% to 100% error” with regard to the
modeled behavior of the glazing? Please explain!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=msolistparagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><font
size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;
color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>-<font size=1
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font color="#1f497d"><span
lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'>It sounds like the use of Window5 is pretty
popular, and this ability to export a file which can be used by DOE2 has me
intrigued – has NFRC or any other body decided to make representative
report files to match 90.1’s baseline envelope requirements to encourage
this procedure for comparative studies?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=msolistparagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><font
size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;
color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>-<font size=1
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font color="#1f497d"><span
lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'>Is Window5 the same thing as WINDOW?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=msolistparagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><font
size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;
color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>-<font size=1
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font color="#1f497d"><span
lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'>Furthering Otto’s original question, my
reaction to a reviewer requiring “VLT including the frame” would be
to first roll my eyes and then explain the frame has a VLT of zero, and is
modeled distinctly from the glazing which has a VLT of ##%… am I misunderstanding
the request there?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>~Nick<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><img border=0 width=119 height=37
id="_x0000_i1025" src="cid:image002.jpg@01CB27F0.28846270"
alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB"></span></font><b><font color="#2d4d5e"
face="Stylus BT"><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Stylus BT";color:#2D4D5E;
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color="#2d4d5e" face="Stylus BT"><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT";color:#2D4D5E;
font-weight:bold'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color="#2d4d5e" face="Stylus BT"><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT";color:#2D4D5E;
font-weight:bold'>NICK CATON, E.I.T.</span></font></b><b><font size=3
color="#2d4d5e" face="Stylus BT"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Stylus BT";color:#2D4D5E;font-weight:bold'><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#2d4d5e" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>direct 913 344.0036<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>fax 913 345.0617<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><i><font size=2 color="#2d4d5e" face=Calibri><span
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0mm 0mm 0mm'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>D. Charlie Curcija<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, July 16, 2010 9:16
AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> 'Andy Hoover'; 'Alex Krickx';
'Otto Schwieterman'; bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Window
performance with frames<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Important thing to remember with windows
is that the real number is the one that account for actual size and that takes
into account angle dependent properties of glazing. In most cases, single
performance indices at standard conditions are used (i.e., U-factor, SHGC, and
VT at normal incidence and standard environmental conditions) in an energy model
of a building, which can produce errors anywhere from 10% to a 100%!! The
correct procedure is to either specify correct configuration and size of the
product, with glazing specified layer by layer (possible in EnergyPlus)
or use what is called DOE2 or EnergyPlus reports from WINDOW program (DOE2
report is used in DOE2 simulation program and E+ report is used in E+
simulation program). This is the only way to fully account for changes in
size, angular properties of glazing and actual weather conditions.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>NFRC (National Fenestration Rating
Council) has started to provide DOE2 and E+ report files in their new CMAST
certification system, however number of products available is still relatively
small and is limited to commercial projects. EnergyPlus has also
implemented in version 5.0 option to specify standard numbers at standard
conditions (like the ones available from <a
href="http://search.nfrc.org/search/searchDefault.aspx">http://search.nfrc.org/search/searchDefault.aspx</a>)
and E+ uses then internal algorithms to provide glazing angular information and
correction for actual conditions. While it is best to model specific
configurations for a window in THERM and WINDOW program (THERM is required to
model frames and edge of glazing), this is not something that average user will
be able to do, so getting whole product information from the NFRC web site and
using E+ option to convert this data to something resembling real performance
is still the best and easiest way to get actual information. For
commercial products <a href="http://cmast.nfrc.org">http://cmast.nfrc.org</a>
provides full information that does not need any simplifications or
corrections.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Our energy simulation tools
DesignBuilder and EFEN use EnergyPlus simulation engine, with the full range of
options mentioned above and also provide hundreds of predefined fenestration
products that can be matched to your actual product.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Arial><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:#1F497D'>D. Charlie Curcija <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Design</span></b>Builder Software <br>
<st1:Street w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on">16 Bridge St</st1:address></st1:Street>.
<br>
<st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Millers Falls</st1:City>, <st1:State
w:st="on">MA</st1:State> <st1:PostalCode w:st="on">01349</st1:PostalCode></st1:place><br>
<br>
Tel: (413) 256-4647 <br>
Fax: (413) 256-4823 <br>
cell: (413) 575-3487 <br>
email: </span></font><font color="#1f497d"><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'><a
href="mailto:curcija@designbuildersoftware.com"
title="blocked::mailto:curcija@designbuildersoftware.com"><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>curcija@designbuildersoftware.com</span></font></a></span></font><font
size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Arial><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D'> <br>
web: </span></font><font color="#1f497d"><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'><a
href="http://www.designbuildersoftware.com/"
title="blocked::http://www.designbuildersoftware.com/"><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>http://www.designbuildersoftware.com</span></font></a></span></font><font
size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Arial><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D'> <br>
<b><i><span style='font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'> </span></i></b> </span></font><font
color="#1f497d"><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0mm 0mm 0mm'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Andy Hoover<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, July 16, 2010 9:01
AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> 'Alex Krickx'; 'Otto
Schwieterman'; bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Window
performance with frames<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Hey all:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>We do not know Alex at all but
completely support his position that it is the entire assembly/full frame in
use that counts. We are a building envelope consultancy and deal
principally in the built market and see this issue all of the time where the
performance of window, storefront and curtain wall units is dramatically
different than that ‘calculated’ or provided. As a
matter of fact, it is the unfortunate norm. At the end of the day it is
about actual in use performance and that performance versus what was
calculated. I will stay away from installation difference in this one </span></font><font
color="#1f497d" face=Wingdings><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:Wingdings;
color:#1F497D'>J</span></font><font color="#1f497d"><span lang=EN-US
style='color:#1F497D'>.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Anyway, we do agree with and have seen
the truth to his assessment of frame differences. It is only the
performance of the entire assembly, at every level of a structure as a whole,
that counts in the real world. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks and take care,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Andy <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Andy Hoover<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Principal<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>The BEST Consultant, Inc.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Cell: 678-793-1159<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Office: 678-200-7648<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Fax: 678-827-0574<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Email: andyhoover@thebestconsultant.com<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Web: www.thebestconsultant.com<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Alex Krickx<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, July 14, 2010
4:57 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Otto Schwieterman;
bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Window
performance with frames<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Hi Otto,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Serious Materials provides full frame
performance data here: <a
href="http://index.seriouswindows.com/document-library/Datasheets/">http://index.seriouswindows.com/document-library/Datasheets/</a>.
I have also have some of our commercial packages modeled in curtainwall and
storefront framing systems that I can provide upon request.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Firstly let me say that Window5 is a
great tool – I use it often and love it. The only thing I would advise is
that there can be a wide distribution in frame U-factors. The default U-factor
for a thermally broken aluminum (TBA) frame in Window 5 is U-1.0. Using THERM
and Window5 I’ve seen TBA frame U-factors vary from as low as 0.8 to as
high as 1.5. The resultant full-frame U-factor using these 2 differing TBA
frames (and the same glass package) is: 0.29 (R-3.4) for the poorer performing
frame, and 0.22 (R-4.5) for the better frame.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I would say that putting either of those
full frame u-factors in your energy model will yield pretty different results. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I think it’s really important that
we, as simulators and modelers, look at full-frame performance because this is
the system that will be installed in the building. Center-of-Glass data can be
useful comparing two different glass packages, but at the end of the day,
it’s a framed system that will be installed and a framed system that
should be analyzed. My 2¢.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Alex Krickx<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color="#262f13" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:#262F13'>Alex Krickx<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=gray face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:9.0pt;color:gray'>Building Energy Specialist<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:8.0pt;color:#1F497D'><img border=0 width=121 height=42
id="Picture_x005f_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CB27F0.28846270"
alt="email_sig"></span></font><font color="#1f497d"><span lang=EN-US
style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><st1:address w:st="on"><st1:Street w:st="on"><font size=1
color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:9.0pt;
color:#1F497D'>1250 Elko Dr</span></font></st1:Street><font size=1
color="#1f497d"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#1F497D'>, <st1:City
w:st="on">Sunnyvale</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">CA</st1:State> <st1:PostalCode
w:st="on">94089</st1:PostalCode></span></font></st1:address><font size=1
color="#1f497d"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#1F497D'>(t) 408.541.8124<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=gray face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:9.0pt;color:gray'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><i><font size=1 color="#1f497d" face=Arial><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D;font-weight:
bold;font-style:italic'>Warning:</span></font></i></b><i><font size=1
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Arial;color:#1F497D;font-style:italic'> The information contained in this
e-mail may be privileged attorney-client communications or attorney work
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US
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<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0mm 0mm 0mm'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Otto Schwieterman<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, July 14, 2010
1:10 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [Bldg-sim] Window
performance with frames<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
11.0pt'>Does anyone know of a window manufacturer web site that has literature
on its windows including the frame? I am using Trace 700 for EA Credit 1 and
the reviewer asked for manufacturer data sheets for window performance values
(U-value, VLT and SHGC) including the frame. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
11.0pt'>Your help is appreciated,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
11.0pt'>Otto<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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