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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Important thing to remember with
windows is that the real number is the one that account for actual size and
that takes into account angle dependent properties of glazing. In most cases,
single performance indices at standard conditions are used (i.e., U-factor,
SHGC, and VT at normal incidence and standard environmental conditions) in an
energy model of a building, which can produce errors anywhere from 10% to a 100%!!
The correct procedure is to either specify correct configuration and size of
the product, with glazing specified layer by layer (possible in EnergyPlus) or
use what is called DOE2 or EnergyPlus reports from WINDOW program (DOE2 report
is used in DOE2 simulation program and E+ report is used in E+ simulation
program). This is the only way to fully account for changes in size, angular
properties of glazing and actual weather conditions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>NFRC (National Fenestration
Rating Council) has started to provide DOE2 and E+ report files in their new
CMAST certification system, however number of products available is still
relatively small and is limited to commercial projects. EnergyPlus has also
implemented in version 5.0 option to specify standard numbers at standard
conditions (like the ones available from </span><span style='color:#1F497D'><a
href="http://search.nfrc.org/search/searchDefault.aspx">http://search.nfrc.org/search/searchDefault.aspx</a>)
and E+ uses then internal algorithms to provide glazing angular information and
correction for actual conditions. While it is best to model specific configurations
for a window in THERM and WINDOW program (THERM is required to model frames and
edge of glazing), this is not something that average user will be able to do,
so getting whole product information from the NFRC web site and using E+ option
to convert this data to something resembling real performance is still the best
and easiest way to get actual information. For commercial products <a
href="http://cmast.nfrc.org">http://cmast.nfrc.org</a> provides full
information that does not need any simplifications or corrections.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Our energy simulation tools
DesignBuilder and EFEN use EnergyPlus simulation engine, with the full range of
options mentioned above and also provide hundreds of predefined fenestration products
that can be matched to your actual product.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>D. Charlie Curcija <br>
<b>Design</b>Builder Software <br>
16 Bridge St. <br>
Millers Falls, MA 01349<br>
<br>
Tel: (413) 256-4647 <br>
Fax: (413) 256-4823 <br>
cell: (413) 575-3487 <br>
email: </span><span style='color:#1F497D'><a
href="mailto:curcija@designbuildersoftware.com"
title="blocked::mailto:curcija@designbuildersoftware.com"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>curcija@designbuildersoftware.com</span></a></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> <br>
web: </span><span style='color:#1F497D'><a
href="http://www.designbuildersoftware.com/"
title="blocked::http://www.designbuildersoftware.com/"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>http://www.designbuildersoftware.com</span></a></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> <br>
<b><i> </i></b> <br>
<br>
</span><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Andy Hoover<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 16, 2010 9:01 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Alex Krickx'; 'Otto Schwieterman'; bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Window performance with frames<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Hey all:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>We do not know Alex at all but
completely support his position that it is the entire assembly/full frame in
use that counts. We are a building envelope consultancy and deal
principally in the built market and see this issue all of the time where the
performance of window, storefront and curtain wall units is dramatically
different than that ‘calculated’ or provided. As a
matter of fact, it is the unfortunate norm. At the end of the day it is
about actual in use performance and that performance versus what was
calculated. I will stay away from installation difference in this one </span><span
style='font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'>J</span><span style='color:#1F497D'>.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Anyway, we do agree with and
have seen the truth to his assessment of frame differences. It is only
the performance of the entire assembly, at every level of a structure as a
whole, that counts in the real world. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Thanks and take care,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Andy <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Andy Hoover<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Principal<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>The BEST Consultant, Inc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Cell: 678-793-1159<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Office: 678-200-7648<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Fax: 678-827-0574<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Email: andyhoover@thebestconsultant.com<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Web: www.thebestconsultant.com<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
font-variant:small-caps;color:#1F497D'>LEGAL DISCLAIMER<br>
The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to
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Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Alex Krickx<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 14, 2010 4:57 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Otto Schwieterman; bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Window performance with frames<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Hi Otto,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Serious Materials provides full
frame performance data here: <a
href="http://index.seriouswindows.com/document-library/Datasheets/">http://index.seriouswindows.com/document-library/Datasheets/</a>.
I have also have some of our commercial packages modeled in curtainwall and
storefront framing systems that I can provide upon request.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Firstly let me say that Window5
is a great tool – I use it often and love it. The only thing I would
advise is that there can be a wide distribution in frame U-factors. The default
U-factor for a thermally broken aluminum (TBA) frame in Window 5 is U-1.0.
Using THERM and Window5 I’ve seen TBA frame U-factors vary from as low as
0.8 to as high as 1.5. The resultant full-frame U-factor using these 2
differing TBA frames (and the same glass package) is: 0.29 (R-3.4) for the
poorer performing frame, and 0.22 (R-4.5) for the better frame.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>I would say that putting either
of those full frame u-factors in your energy model will yield pretty different
results. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>I think it’s really
important that we, as simulators and modelers, look at full-frame performance
because this is the system that will be installed in the building. Center-of-Glass
data can be useful comparing two different glass packages, but at the end of
the day, it’s a framed system that will be installed and a framed system
that should be analyzed. My 2˘.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Alex Krickx<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:#262F13'>Alex Krickx<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:gray'>Building Energy
Specialist<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;color:#1F497D'><img border=0
width=121 height=42 id="Picture_x0020_1"
src="cid:image001.jpg@01CB24CB.E76DE0D0" alt="email_sig"></span><span
style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#1F497D'>1250 Elko Dr,
Sunnyvale, CA 94089<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#1F497D'>(t) 408.541.8124<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:gray'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Warning:</span></i></b><i><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> The information contained
in this e-mail may be privileged attorney-client communications or attorney
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any review, distribution or copying of this message is prohibited and you are
to notify us immediately by reply e-mail and delete the original message
immediately.</span></i><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Otto
Schwieterman<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 14, 2010 1:10 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Bldg-sim] Window performance with frames<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Does anyone know of a window manufacturer web site that has
literature on its windows including the frame? I am using Trace 700 for EA
Credit 1 and the reviewer asked for manufacturer data sheets for window performance
values (U-value, VLT and SHGC) including the frame. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Your help is appreciated,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Otto<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<pre>________________________________________________________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Fanning/Howey Associates, Inc. intends to send this transmission (including any attachments) only to the<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>designated individual or entity. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender by replying<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>to the electronic mail (if electronic) or by telephone at the number indicated on this document.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Fanning/Howey Associates, Inc. has taken reasonable precautions to ensure no viruses are present in the<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>electronic mail. Fanning/Howey Associates, Inc., will not accept responsibility for any loss or damage arising<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>from the use of this electronic mail or attachments. Use, disclosure, dissemination, distribution, or reproduction<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>of this message by unintended recipients is not authorized and maybe unlawful. Any information included in<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>this transmission that is not related to contracts with our authorization, verbal or written, by Fanning/Howey<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Associates, Inc. may not be covered by our professional liability insurance. <o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre></div>
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