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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Hey all:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>We do not know Alex at all but
completely support his position that it is the entire assembly/full frame in
use that counts. We are a building envelope consultancy and deal principally
in the built market and see this issue all of the time where the performance of
window, storefront and curtain wall units is dramatically different than that ‘calculated’
or provided. As a matter of fact, it is the unfortunate norm. At the end of
the day it is about actual in use performance and that performance versus what
was calculated. I will stay away from installation difference in this one </span><span
style='font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'>J</span><span style='color:#1F497D'>.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Anyway, we do agree with and
have seen the truth to his assessment of frame differences. It is only the
performance of the entire assembly, at every level of a structure as a whole,
that counts in the real world. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Thanks and take care,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Andy <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Andy Hoover<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Principal<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>The BEST Consultant, Inc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Cell: 678-793-1159<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Office: 678-200-7648<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Fax: 678-827-0574<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Email:
andyhoover@thebestconsultant.com<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Web: www.thebestconsultant.com<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
font-variant:small-caps;color:#1F497D'>LEGAL DISCLAIMER<br>
The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Alex Krickx<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 14, 2010 4:57 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Otto Schwieterman; bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Window performance with frames<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Hi Otto,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Serious Materials provides full
frame performance data here: <a
href="http://index.seriouswindows.com/document-library/Datasheets/">http://index.seriouswindows.com/document-library/Datasheets/</a>.
I have also have some of our commercial packages modeled in curtainwall and
storefront framing systems that I can provide upon request.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Firstly let me say that Window5
is a great tool – I use it often and love it. The only thing I would
advise is that there can be a wide distribution in frame U-factors. The default
U-factor for a thermally broken aluminum (TBA) frame in Window 5 is U-1.0.
Using THERM and Window5 I’ve seen TBA frame U-factors vary from as low as
0.8 to as high as 1.5. The resultant full-frame U-factor using these 2
differing TBA frames (and the same glass package) is: 0.29 (R-3.4) for the
poorer performing frame, and 0.22 (R-4.5) for the better frame.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>I would say that putting either
of those full frame u-factors in your energy model will yield pretty different
results. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>I think it’s really
important that we, as simulators and modelers, look at full-frame performance
because this is the system that will be installed in the building.
Center-of-Glass data can be useful comparing two different glass packages, but
at the end of the day, it’s a framed system that will be installed and a
framed system that should be analyzed. My 2¢.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Alex Krickx<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:#262F13'>Alex Krickx<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:gray'>Building Energy Specialist<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;color:#1F497D'><img border=0
width=121 height=42 id="Picture_x0020_1"
src="cid:image001.jpg@01CB24C3.5F1BC830" alt="email_sig"></span><span
style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#1F497D'>1250 Elko Dr,
Sunnyvale, CA 94089<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#1F497D'>(t) 408.541.8124<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:gray'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Warning:</span></i></b><i><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> The information contained
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any review, distribution or copying of this message is prohibited and you are
to notify us immediately by reply e-mail and delete the original message immediately.</span></i><span
style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Otto
Schwieterman<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 14, 2010 1:10 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Bldg-sim] Window performance with frames<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Does anyone know of a window manufacturer web site that has
literature on its windows including the frame? I am using Trace 700 for EA
Credit 1 and the reviewer asked for manufacturer data sheets for window performance
values (U-value, VLT and SHGC) including the frame. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Your help is appreciated,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Otto<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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