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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I use Table E2 from CBECS (<a
href="http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cbecs/cbecs2003/detailed_tables_2003/2003set19/2003pdf/alltables.pdf">http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cbecs/cbecs2003/detailed_tables_2003/2003set19/2003pdf/alltables.pdf</a>)
to verify that the fraction of process/plug loads is in right ballpark for
various building types.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Maria Karpman<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Marcus
Sheffer<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 03, 2010 11:37 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Chris Jones'; Carol Gardner; bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org; eQUEST
Users List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] [Equest-users] Fwd: [Bldg-rate] LEED+90.1
Process/Plug Loads Conundrum<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Unfortunately the reviewer was incorrect in their interpretation
for that review. GBCI is working hard to ensure a higher level of
consistency in LEED reviews. The change from the Certification Bodies
method to bringing reviews in-house at GBCI should go a long way to achieving
better consistency.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Also while it does appear that the 25% is being calculated based
on energy use, we have been assured by the author of the form that it is indeed
being calculated based on cost.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:green'>Marcus Sheffer, Chair USGBC EA TAG</span><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:green'>Energy Opportunities, Inc/a 7group Company</span><span
style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>1200 E Camping Area Road, Wellsville, PA 17365</span><span
style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>717-292-2636, </span><span style='color:#1F497D'><a
href="mailto:sheffer@sevengroup.com"><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"'>sheffer@sevengroup.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.sevengroup.com">www.sevengroup.com</a></span><span
style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Chris Jones<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, May 01, 2010 10:24 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Carol Gardner; bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org; eQUEST Users List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] [Equest-users] Fwd: [Bldg-rate] LEED+90.1
Process/Plug Loads Conundrum<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>On one project the reviewer
demanded that I increase the plug load cost from 23.5% to 25%. In my
experience, the reviewer always looks for this one as it is an easy one to
point to so the reviewer looks like he/she is doing their job.<br>
<br>
At 06:12 PM 4/30/2010, Carol Gardner wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
From: <b>Carol Gardner</b> <<a href="mailto:cmg750@gmail.com">cmg750@gmail.com</a>><br>
Date: Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 2:40 PM<br>
Subject: Re: [Bldg-rate] LEED+90.1 Process/Plug Loads Conundrum<br>
To: James Hess <<a href="mailto:JHess@tmecorp.com">JHess@tmecorp.com</a>>,
Nick Caton <<a href="mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com">ncaton@smithboucher.com</a>
>, Karen Walkerman <<a href="mailto:kwalkerman@gmail.com">kwalkerman@gmail.com</a>><br>
Cc: "<a href="mailto:bldg-rate@lists.onebuilding.org"> bldg-rate@lists.onebuilding.org</a>"
<<a href="mailto:bldg-rate@lists.onebuilding.org">
bldg-rate@lists.onebuilding.org</a>><br>
<br>
<br>
Hi Nick,<br>
<br>
I'm glad you raised this issue. <br>
<br>
First, I agree with James, and have heard from other people, that LEED accepts
documentation saying something as basic as "hey, I don't have 25% plug
loads".<br>
<br>
Second, when you have to create a baseline to measure up from, you are forced
to say what that baseline is. For instance, in 1985-86, working on the
BPA-funded Energy Edge project, we had to figure out the baseline for a group
of buildings being designed to exceed the current energy codes by 30%. We
didn't have a baseline then. To deal with this we assembled a group of people
that we euphemistically called The Greybeards (so sorry to you all). The tables
now known as G3.1.1A & G3.1.1B in Standard 90 came out of what we created
in that moment of time. We were trying to limit what is called "gaming the
system"<br>
<br>
So now it seems it has been deemed important to control the baseline a little
more: by specifying plug loads at 25%. The goal of trying to limit gaming the
system might be the source of the 25%. The danger which Nick has clearly
demonstrated in his email is that what is meant to control gaming the system,
may now actually be creating it.<br>
<br>
Further thoughts/comments welcome,<br>
<span style='color:#888888'><br>
Carol<br>
<br>
</span>On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 1:42 PM, James Hess <<a
href="mailto:JHess@tmecorp.com">JHess@tmecorp.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'>This is a good question. On prior projects we have
worked on, I have found that you can have less than 25% plug loads, so long as
you have some documentation to back it up.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'>For example, we are currently working on a prison
project. The plug loads are very low for obvious reasons; they
don’t provide stereos, computers, ipods, TV’s, etc. to the inmates
(typically, all they get is an alarm clock/radio that uses ~ < 10
watts). There is no way on this project that we could get the plug loads
to come in at 25% unless we artificially jacked them up to levels that would
never exist in reality. We would have a similar problem in that the
Proposed Design equipment would not be able to cool the spaces. So, we
just document the loads we do have and I believe we are good. The project
has been through the 1st review and this has not come up as an issue. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'>I believe we have had other projects where we
documented the loads we had and passed the review with no problems. We
will typically develop a simple spreadsheet and document the internal loads
that each room has. That is easy enough to do these days I believe, for
most applications. For example, a typical desktop computer uses about 65
watts on average, monitor = ~ 45 watts (depending on size), clock radio ~ 10 to
15 watts, etc. you get the point. (get a “Killawatt” power
meter from Amazon and have some fun taking some measurements to see
approximately how much power stuff uses, guaranteed to provide hours of fun).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'>Just provide some documentation on some good
reasonable estimates for the loads and I think you will be fine.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'>An alternate method is to use default values from
Table G-B from the ASHRAE 90.1-2007 Users Manual.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'>For example, the Receptacle Power Density for the
Office Building Type is 0.75 watts/SF per Table G-5.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'>If using that value results in the process loads being
less than 25%, my comment to the reviewers would be that the 0.75 watts/SF is
the value determined by ASHRAE to be appropriate for the building type.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'>I think the most important thing is to use something
reasonable and defendable, and make it the same between the Baseline and
Proposed Design energy models. Our experience indicates that it does not
have to be exactly 25%, can be less than 25% or greater than 25%, depending on
the building.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'>One thing that is interesting is that on federal
projects, per EPACT requirements, you do not have to factor in the
process/recep loads for the purpose of determining whether the 30% savings
requirement has been met. That makes it easier to show 30% savings.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'>Thanks!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'>JAH<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'>James A. Hess, PE, CEM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'>Senior Energy Engineer<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'>TME, Inc.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'>Little Rock, AR<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'>Mobile: 501-351-4667<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>From: <a
href="mailto:bldg-rate-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-rate-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:bldg-rate-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">
mailto:bldg-rate-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] On Behalf Of Nick Caton<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'>Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 12:55 PM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>To: <a
href="mailto:bldg-rate@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-rate@lists.onebuilding.org</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'>Subject: [Bldg-rate] LEED+90.1 Process/Plug Loads
Conundrum<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'>Something new occurred to me this week and I’d
love to hear others’ thoughts!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'>LEED prescribes baseline/proposed energy models to
follow ASHRAE 90.1 with a caveat: the “process energy costs”
must total 25% of the baseline energy costs. By extension, 90.1 requires
the same loads/schedules be applied to the proposed model as they have to
match. As an aside, the LEED EAc1 templates appear to calculate/check
this using process energy consumption (not cost), but that’s not what
I’m getting at…<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'>I just had a typical case where I had to inflate the
baseline internal miscellaneous equipment loads to get to 25%. These
additional loads were substantial enough that when applied to the proposed
model/design, I ran into many unmet cooling hours for the equipment capacities
entered. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'>Then I realized: We can define additional
equipment electricity loads but simultaneously apply a multiplier (in eQuest
anyway – I expect this is feasible other programs also) to reduce/negate
the corresponding heat load contributions. This results in the energy
consumption/costs showing up correctly in the final results/reports, but does
not artificially inflate the internal loads that the baseline/proposed systems
must handle.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'>Would this practice (which incidentally can be a time
saver) of accounting for extra process/miscellaneous loads without extra
thermal contributions be in line with the intent of ASHRAE/USGBC? It
would still normalize the otherwise unstandardized process consumption/costs of
the baseline/proposed models between different building types…<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'>On the other hand, if it really is the intent of USGBC
to add arbitrary additional internal heat loads to our models that our actual
designs were not designed and sized for, does it follow that we should allow
the proposed models to autosize cooling equipment/fan capacities and not
specify them (this would seem incongruous with 90.1 to me)?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'>~Nick<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'>NICK CATON, E.I.T.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'>PROJECT ENGINEER<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'>direct 913 344.0036<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'>fax 913 345.0617<o:p></o:p></p>
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