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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Gavin is correct that modeling VRV systems
as heat pumps will not demonstrate efficiencies related to part load
operation. Additionally, efficiencies related to heat reclaim during periods
of the year when applicable will not be captured in the model. Energy Pro, by
Energysoft, is the only software I am aware of that has the appropriate algorithms
programmed to provide accurate simulations. Energy Pro is a front end software
package for DOE-2 simulation. We have used it on several occasions to
demonstrate anticipated energy savings.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=3 color="#0047b8" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#0047B8;font-weight:bold'>TIM
REYNOLDS, P.E., LEED AP<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#0047b8" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#0047B8'>Associate Principal<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#0047b8" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#0047B8'>CB Engineers<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#0C45A0'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><st1:Street w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on"><font size=2
color="#0047b8" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:#0047B8'>600 108th Ave NE Suite 600</span></font></st1:address></st1:Street><font
size=2 color="#0047b8" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Calibri;color:#0047B8'> | <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Bellevue</st1:City>,
<st1:State w:st="on">WA</st1:State> <st1:PostalCode w:st="on">98004</st1:PostalCode></st1:place><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#0047b8" face=Calibri><span
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10.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:purple'>Ext 8431</span></font><font size=2
color="#0047b8" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:#0047B8'> | C 206 422 2547 | F 425 564 8517<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'><a
href="mailto:tim.reynolds@cbengineers.com"><font size=2 color=black
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color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:black'>cbengineers.com</span></font></a></span></font><font size=2
color="#0047b8" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:#0047B8'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#0C45A0'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color="#0d0d0d" face=Calibri><span
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<p class=MsoNormal><i><font size=5 color=green face=Webdings><span lang=EN-GB
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font-style:italic'> </span></font></i><b><i><font size=1 color=green
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
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<div>
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face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Gavin Gui<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, March 15, 2010 6:54
AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Larry Degelman; Shubhra
Kothari; reniel barroso<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Bldg-sim] VRV System
Equipment Efficiency</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I agree with Larry. There is no exact system specified in
the ASHRAE 90.1 that matches the VRV system. We used to model the VRV system
using the efficiencies in Table 6.8.1B, however note that these efficiencies
are typically for full load operations, hence it will not capture the advantage
of the part load capability of the VRV systems. I.e. to say, the savings
calculated as such will be typically conservative.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Also note that VRV systems are generally waived from the DOE
test procedure applicable to commercial package air-cooled central air
conditioners and heat pumps (2 systems that I know of are the Mitsubishi
City-Multi and Sanyo VRV-III systems) although they have to comply with the
alternate testing procedure. So just take note of the system efficiencies used
for the modeling.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:Calibri'>-------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Gavin Gui<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Project Engineer<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>ERS, Inc.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><st1:Street w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on"><font size=2
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>120 Water
Street, Ste. 350</span></font></st1:address></st1:Street><font size=2
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on"><font size=2
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>North Andover</span></font></st1:City><font
size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>, <st1:State
w:st="on">MA</st1:State> <st1:PostalCode w:st="on">01845</st1:PostalCode></span></font></st1:place><font
size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Ph: 978-521-2550, x 236<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Fax: 978-521-4588<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><a href="mailto:jrogers@ers-inc.com">ggui@ers-inc.com</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><a href="http://www.ers-inc.com/">www.ers-inc.com</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:Calibri'>-------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org]
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Larry Degelman<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, March 15, 2010 9:24
AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Shubhra Kothari; reniel
barroso<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Bldg-sim] VRV System
Equipment Efficiency<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Here's another opinion (non-authoritative): I believe
the VRV efficiency requirements would match best with the "air cooled,
cooling and heating modes" requirements in Table 6.8.1B (for heat
pumps). In the ECB method, this would most likely be system 8,
Packaged terminal heat pumps. I agree that the ventilation should be
modeled separately as a DOAS.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>LOD</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>===========================<br>
Larry O. Degelman, P.E.<br>
Professor Emeritus of Architecture<br>
<st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Texas</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceName
w:st="on">A&M</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">University</st1:PlaceType></st1:place><br>
===========================</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <a
href="mailto:shubhrakothari@gmail.com"
title="mailto:shubhrakothari@gmail.com CTRL + Click to follow link">Shubhra
Kothari</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Monday,
March 15, 2010 12:32 AM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <a
href="mailto:renielbarroso@yahoo.com"
title="mailto:renielbarroso@yahoo.com CTRL + Click to follow link">reniel
barroso</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <a
href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org"
title="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org CTRL + Click to follow link">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Re:
[Bldg-sim] VRV System Equipment Efficiency<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Well, there seems to be no ARI standard for testing VRV yet. So, you
won't find it in 90.1. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>The closest you can get is packaged single zone (match cooling
capacity) i believe but you'll have to figure out a way of modelling the
fresh air side- as DOAS or others. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Thanks<br>
Shubhra Kothari<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:26 AM, reniel barroso <<a
href="mailto:renielbarroso@yahoo.com"
title="mailto:renielbarroso@yahoo.com CTRL + Click to follow link">renielbarroso@yahoo.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Hi to all!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Where can we find the Minimum Requirement System Efficiency
of a VRV System in ASHRAE 90.1?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Which of those systems mentioned in the ASHRAE 90.1 can we
use to compare such equipment?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Reniel<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=1 width="100%" align=center>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><a
href="http://sg.rd.yahoo.com/aa/mail/domainchoice/mail/signature/*http:/mail.promotions.yahoo.com/newdomains/aa/"
target="_blank">Get your preferred Email name! </a><br>
Now you can @<a href="http://ymail.com/" target="_blank">ymail.com</a> and @<a
href="http://rocketmail.com/" target="_blank">rocketmail.com</a>.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
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