James,<br>I was involved in modeling an Aquatic Center recently. This was not a LEED project but a utility DSM project but I think our approach would be applicable. We assumed that the pool space was a process space. For this case, the proposed design system and controls should be of the same type in both the baseline and the proposed design. In our project, we took credit for a controls innovation that modulated outside air based on indoor humidity level instead of outside air (as is allowed through an exceptional calculation method by LEED).<br>
<br> I developed a spreadsheet to complete a mass and energy balance on the space and figured out the outside air for each hour of the day throughout the year based on the proposed control strategy. Then I developed an 8760 schedule for outside air and used it with the proposed model. <br>
<br>To figure out the latent losses from the pool to the space, we followed the Shah Method (do a google search and you'll find a spreadsheet of the method). The results seemed to be more modest than those following the ASHRAE method. However, both were high when compared to values used for solar thermal system sizing (by the solar contractor). As I matter of fact, I couldn't "turn down" the Shah model far enough to get close to those values, which were about 1/2. In contrast, the mechanical engineers design values were about double the Shah Method results. It was very frustrating to go through such a detailed analysis only to be unsure of actual latent lose values. In the end, I modified the Shah method results so they would be consistent with the solar contractor's annual load estimate. The contractor had done several local installations that delivered as expected. <br>
<br>Part of the analysis considered the impact of having the pool covered vs having a solar thermal system that met 60% of the annual load. This is part of the ASHRAE 90.1-2004, which the project needed to adhere to. This adds a little extra through regarding scheduling the latent losses in doing the modeling. <br>
<br>Good luck. This is one area of modeling that could surely use some help. But based on my mixed results, I don't know if you want to follow the path I did. <br>Ellen<br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 2:36 PM, James V Dirkes II, PE <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jvd2pe@tds.net">jvd2pe@tds.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dear Bldg-Sim community,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I’m trying to plan a LEED energy model which has a <u>swimming
pool</u> and am stuck thinking about how to model the baseline condition.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">A pool has such specialized needs that I have doubts whether
one of the specified baseline systems in ASHRAE 90.1 can do an acceptable job
of controlling temperature and humidity.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">At present, I am reasonably confident that I can schedule
the pool occupancy properly, add moisture in amounts that parallel the
pool evaporation and specify the pool heater energy. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">My facility requires a “System 6” parallel fan
powered VAV box HVAC system (95,000 sq.ft., single story, multi-purpose
facility). This is not a system type that makes sense for a pool, so I
hesitate to use it at all. If I have to, for purposes of following 90.1,
I think it might meet temperature loads, but it certainly won’t meet
humidity loads, at least not at the specified 20F airside delta T. That,
of course means that overall energy use will not even be close to what will
actually be needed and the baseline will compare poorly with the actual (very
efficient) HVAC system.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I’ll appreciate any guidance from those among you who
have done LEED projects with pools!</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks in advance.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><img src="" alt="BPT BizCard_RGB_0507" height="192" width="336"></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">THINGS YOU WOULD NEVER
KNOW WITHOUT THE MOVIES</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">All telephone numbers in
America begin with the digits 555.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">The ventilation system of any
building is the perfect hiding place. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">No one will ever think of
looking for you in there and you can travel </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">to any other part of the
building you want without difficulty.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Ellen Franconi, PhD, LEED AP<br>Senior Consultant, Built Environment Team<br><br>Rocky Mountain Institute<br>1820 Folsom Street<br>Boulder, CO 80302<br>303.567.8609 (Desk)<br>
303.245.7213 (Fax)<br><br>Rocky Mountain Institute drives the efficient and restorative use of<br>resources, creating a world thriving, verdant, and secure, for all, for ever.<br><br><a href="http://www.rmi.org">http://www.rmi.org</a><br>