<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><DIV>Well spoken, Sir. But with the grant money out there, I am surprised ASHRAE or someone hasn't taken a crack at this..<BR></DIV>
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<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> "James V Dirkes II, PE" <jvd2pe@tds.net><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Jin Minming <jminming@yahoo.com>; bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thu, February 18, 2010 6:00:03 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [Bldg-sim] Fw: How to estimate performance of HVAC system in life cycle analysis?<BR></FONT><BR>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri', 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">My opinion: </SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri', 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Performance of well-maintained equipment remains much the same as when it was new and can actually improve. Performance of poorly maintained equipment can deteriorate within months by 20+%. I cannot imagine any study / research which could accurately paint a picture of “typical” that would be useful in energy modeling. For existing buildings, I <U>measure</U> the performance of critical and larger equipment.</SPAN></P>
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<P style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=MsoNormal align=center><B><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">The Building Performance Team<BR></SPAN></B><B><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">James V. Dirkes II, P.E., LEED AP<BR></SPAN></B><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">1631 Acacia Drive NW<BR>Grand Rapids, MI 49504<BR>616 450 8653</SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma', 'sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma', 'sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Jin Minming<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, February 18, 2010 6:09 AM<BR><B>To:</B> bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Bldg-sim] Fw: How to estimate performance of HVAC system in life cycle analysis?</SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
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<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal>Hello John,</P>
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<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal><BR>Thanks for your reply,<BR><BR>I can get service life of equipments from Chapter 36 OWNING and OPERATING COSTS in ASHRAE 2007 HANDBOOK or http://xp20.ashrae.org/publicdatabase/. But I am more interested to understand how the performance of HVAC systems changes during their life. HVAC equipment performance normally degrades with use and time, at a rate depending on the quality of maintenance and operations. Then for different conditions of equipments (best, normal, and worst), maybe simple degradation rate can be used to indicate how the efficiency of equipments (such as boiler efficiency, chiller COP, fan efficiency, pump efficiency) degrades with time. Maybe there are some typical values from actual HVAC systems although there should be very uncertain in these degradation rates under actual conditions. <BR>1: Would you please let me know where I can find these degradation
data for HVAC equipment performance? <BR>2: Or maybe it is fair to say that HVAC equipment efficiency would remain similar to the initial one during their life (about 20 years) under good and constant maintenance? (I read some papers about how to calculate operating energy from HVAC systems in life cycle analysis. Most researchers assume that annual operating energy is a constant during the building life.) <BR>3: Would you please give me some advice how to quantify or semi-quantify these performance change of HVAC equipment during their service life?<BR><BR>Thanks,<BR><BR>Jim Terrry <BR><BR> </P></DIV>
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<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in" class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma', 'sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma', 'sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> John Aulbach <jra_sac@yahoo.com><BR><B>To:</B> Jin Minming <jminming@yahoo.com>; bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tue, 16 February, 2010 5:38:06<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Bldg-sim] How to estimate performance of HVAC system in life cycle analysis?</SPAN></P>
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<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal>Jim:</P></DIV>
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<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal>I don't have the reference right in front of me, but I believe the ASHRAE HVAC Systems has a table for useful life. Also the California Energy Commission. But my references are at work. Reemail me at <A href="mailto:jaulbach@ptrenergy.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:jaulbach@ptrenergy.com">jaulbach@ptrenergy.com</A> to emind me, and I shall look them up for you.</P></DIV>
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<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal>John Aulbach</P></DIV>
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<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in" class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma', 'sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma', 'sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Jin Minming <jminming@yahoo.com><BR><B>To:</B> bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<BR><B>Sent:</B> Mon, February 15, 2010 3:42:12 AM<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Bldg-sim] How to estimate performance of HVAC system in life cycle analysis?</SPAN></P>
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<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal>Hello all,</P>
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<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal><BR>In life cycle analysis of buildings, it seems it is very hard to estimate long-term performance of HVAC systems (or other building components), for example, air handling units, chiller, or boilers. It makes sense that HVAC system will degrade with time, depending on many factors, like maintainence, wear-and-tear. The problem is how to quantify these change with time. Maybe some probabilstic or scenario methods can be used. Would you please tell me the common method to predict these performance change or where I can find some good references about this topic?<BR><BR>Thanks,<BR><BR>Jim Terrry </P></DIV></DIV>
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