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Julia,<br>
<br>
In response to your natural ventilation issue: The user manual for
ASHRAE 90.1 states "The proposed building default cooling system does
not exclude natural ventilation from consideration. It just means that
the proposed building is modeled as a “hybrid system” where cooling is
provided by natural ventilation when conditions are acceptable and by
the default mechanical cooling system when natural ventilation is
inadequate to provide thermal comfort." From this, I would imagine
that you should model your regularly occupied spaces as conditioned
with this so-called hybrid system, rather than unconditioned, as i
understand from your modeling plan. (by regularly occupied spaces, I
mean offices and conference rooms are conditioned and storage is NOT
conditioned) Technically, if your spaces are "sufficiently" ventilated
naturally, there would be little to no hours in which the mechanical
half of the hybrid system turns on.<br>
<br>
If you are using equest, you might need to supplement your model with
separate comfort analyses of the naturally ventilated spaces and then
work in those results in the form of schedules.<br>
-Linda<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Linda Lam
212 219 2255 | <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lam@transsolar.com">lam@transsolar.com</a>
Transsolar Inc. | 134 Spring St. Suite 601 | New York, NY 10012
Transsolar Climate Engineering
Technical consulting for energy efficiency and environmental quality in buildings
New York - Stuttgart - Munich </pre>
<br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bldg-sim-request@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim-request@lists.onebuilding.org</a> wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:mailman.0.1264449654.10939.bldg-sim-onebuilding.org@lists.onebuilding.org"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Send Bldg-sim mailing list submissions to
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</pre>
<pre wrap="">
<hr size="4" width="90%">
<table class="header-part1" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"
width="100%"><tbody><tr><td><div class="headerdisplayname"
style="display: inline;">Subject: </div>[Bldg-sim] do I have to model cooling and heating in this case?</td></tr><tr><td><div
class="headerdisplayname" style="display: inline;">From: </div>Julia Beabout <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:juliabeabout@yahoo.com"><juliabeabout@yahoo.com></a></td></tr><tr><td><div
class="headerdisplayname" style="display: inline;">Date: </div>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 13:32:08 -0800</td></tr><tr><td><div
class="headerdisplayname" style="display: inline;">To: </div>BLDG-SIM <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org"><bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org></a></td></tr></tbody></table><table
class="header-part2" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"
width="100%"><tbody><tr><td><div class="headerdisplayname"
style="display: inline;">To: </div>BLDG-SIM <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org"><bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org></a></td></tr></tbody></table>
<style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style><div
style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><div>Hi All,
Was hoping you all could check my thinking regarding how to model the following.
The project is a LEED NCv3/2009 energy model. The project is a large warehouse with some support spaces (offices, toilets, lunch room, security etc). It is located in Medellin, Columbia. Medellin has a very mild climate. It is apparently common for buildings in this location to not be provided with heating or cooling. In keeping with that, most spaces on this project will not be heated or cooled and satisfy the ASHRAE 90.1-2007 definition for UNconditioned spaces. (A few of the UNconditioned spaces even have permanently open, fixed louvers and could potentially meet the ASHRAE 90.1-2007 definition for unenclosed spaces).
Appendix G,
Table G3.1, 1. Design Model, item b. states: All CONDITIONED spaces in the proposed design shall be simulated as being both heated and cooled even if no heating or cooling system is to be installed.......
<span style="font-style: italic;"></span><span
style="text-decoration: underline;">My Modeling Plan: </span>
Since the above statement is for CONDITIONED spaces, my plan is to model the UNconditioned spaces as neither heated nor cooled in both the proposed and baseline models. I intend to only model the lighting and process energy in these spaces. For the few cooled spaces on the project, I intend to model both heating and cooling in both the proposed and baseline models even though the spaces will actually only have cooling.
<span style="text-decoration: underline;">Potential Issues:</span>
The only point of confusion or difficulty I see with my plan is that Table G3.1, 4. Schedules, Exception a, and 10. HVAC
Systems could potentially create the impression that every space has to be simulated as heated and cooled. However, with further careful reading, it seems to me that the intent of sections 4 & 6 is to provide details for but not change the scope of section 1 which establishes the extent of spaces that have to be modeled as heated and cooled.
<span style="text-decoration: underline;">Natural Ventilation Credit?</span>
Also, am I missing an opportunity here to get credit for natural ventilation in these spaces? Although, does providing someone with say an operable window really count as a natural ventilation system? That doesn't seem quite right to me in terms of getting LEED credit for energy savings. While the spaces have been designed to satisfy the natural ventilation requirements with respect to ASHRAE 62/LEED IEQ purposes, they haven't been "engineered" for natural ventilation from a comfort
standpoint.
I would appreciate feedback regarding the correctness my thinking and modeling plan above.
Thank you for reading this far. Thanks in advance for your feedback.
Julia
</div>
<!-- cg4.c4.mail.gq1.yahoo.com compressed/chunked Thu Jan 14 16:58:58 PST 2010 -->
</div>
<hr size="4" width="90%">
<table class="header-part1" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"
width="100%"><tbody><tr><td><div class="headerdisplayname"
style="display: inline;">Subject: </div>Re: [Bldg-sim] White Box Technologies announces the establishment of a Center for Open Source Building Simulations</td></tr><tr><td><div
class="headerdisplayname" style="display: inline;">From: </div>Chris Jones <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:cj@cr-jay.ca"><cj@cr-jay.ca></a></td></tr><tr><td><div
class="headerdisplayname" style="display: inline;">Date: </div>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 11:04:14 -0500</td></tr><tr><td><div
class="headerdisplayname" style="display: inline;">To: </div>Joe Huang <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:YJHuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com"><YJHuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com></a></td></tr></tbody></table><table
class="header-part2" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"
width="100%"><tbody><tr><td><div class="headerdisplayname"
style="display: inline;">To: </div>Joe Huang <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:YJHuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com"><YJHuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com></a></td></tr><tr><td><div
class="headerdisplayname" style="display: inline;">CC: </div><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:bldg-sim@onebuilding.org">"bldg-sim@onebuilding.org"</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:bldg-sim@onebuilding.org"><bldg-sim@onebuilding.org></a></td></tr></tbody></table>
There were a number of enhancements, paid for by public entities,
implemented in Hirsh's version of DOE2.1e - Dual Fan Dual Duct
system, pumping enhancements, etc. Hirsh was supposed to implement
those enhancements in the LBL version...
At 03:52 PM 1/21/2010, Joe Huang wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">Dear Friends and Colleagues,
White Box Technologies wishes to announce its intention to establish
a non-profit Center for Open Source Building Energy Simulations
(COSBES). I admit the title may sound a bit on the grandiose side,
but it capsulizes my thinking on what may help our little world of
building energy simulations - a non-profit non-commercial center on
simulation programs and resources that's in the public domain.
My initial goals are very modest, but my long-range vision is for
the Center to be capable of significant software development and
support, but always open source. My first steps are simply to
maintain an open-source version of DOE-2.1E. DOE-2.1E has been
effectively abandoned by LBNL and DOE for close to a decade. I have
assurances from LBNL that it's only a matter of paperwork for them
to make the program open source, and have communicated to them my
intentions without receiving any objections.
So what would this support consist of, besides making the program
and source code freely available? That would of course depend on the
public's (your) interest and need, which is one reason for this
announcement! But for starters, I have a backlog of completed work
that have never been incorporated into the public release version of
DOE-2.1E, such as two-dimensional and combined response factors for
composite walls, a decent foundation model, and an improved weather
file format. In addition, I'm currently working on contract for
ORNL to incorporate AtticSim into 2.1E. Lastly, I have a license
from LBNL to continue working on my last major work there - a
partially-completed DOE-2 to EnergyPlus translator (doe2ep) that,
funding pending, can be updated to the current EnergyPlus release.
Also in the works and soon to be launched are (1) VisualEPlus, a
graphical user interface for EnergyPlus done by colleagues in China,
and (2) actual-year weather data service accessing NCDC's massive
International Surface Hourly (ISH) data base.
I had originally thought of calling a meeting at ASHRAE to make this
announcement, but then realized that finding a time to meet at
ASHRAE is an impossibility. However, I would be happy to entertain
any questions and comments while at the conference, where I'll
typically be found in TC 4.7 and 4.2 meetings. For course, I'm also
open to questions and comments posted on BLDG-SIM, although my
responses will be somewhat delayed.
--
Joe Huang
White Box Technologies, Inc.
346 Rheem Blvd. Suite 108D
Moraga CA 94556
(o) +925 388 0265
(c) +510 928 2683
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com">yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.whiteboxtechnologies.com">www.whiteboxtechnologies.com</a>
--
Joe Huang
White Box Technologies, Inc.
346 Rheem Blvd. Suite 108D
Moraga CA 94556
(o) +925 388 0265
(c) +510 928 2683
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com">yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.whiteboxtechnologies.com">www.whiteboxtechnologies.com</a>
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</blockquote>
Chris Jones
14 Oneida Avenue
Toronto, ON M5J 2E3.
Tel. 416-203-7465
Fax. 416-946-1005
<hr size="4" width="90%">
<table class="header-part1" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"
width="100%"><tbody><tr><td><div class="headerdisplayname"
style="display: inline;">Subject: </div>Re: [Bldg-sim] White Box Technologies announces the establishment of a Center for Open Source Building Simulations</td></tr><tr><td><div
class="headerdisplayname" style="display: inline;">From: </div>James Hess <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:JHess@tmecorp.com"><JHess@tmecorp.com></a></td></tr><tr><td><div
class="headerdisplayname" style="display: inline;">Date: </div>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 10:37:09 -0600</td></tr><tr><td><div
class="headerdisplayname" style="display: inline;">To: </div><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:bldg-sim@onebuilding.org">"bldg-sim@onebuilding.org"</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:bldg-sim@onebuilding.org"><bldg-sim@onebuilding.org></a></td></tr></tbody></table><table
class="header-part2" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"
width="100%"><tbody><tr><td><div class="headerdisplayname"
style="display: inline;">To: </div><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:bldg-sim@onebuilding.org">"bldg-sim@onebuilding.org"</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:bldg-sim@onebuilding.org"><bldg-sim@onebuilding.org></a></td></tr></tbody></table>
<pre wrap="">I had a related/similar question.
I thought DOE2.2 was already open source since it's paid for via public funds. I also thought that DOE2.2 picked up where DOE2.1E left off and already added several enhancements.
Question: Can COSBES work with DOE2.2 and further improve it, versus starting back where DOE2.1E left off?
Maybe you're already planning to do that, don't know. It would seem a good idea to have one consolidated version of DOE2 with all enhancements added since DOE2.1E final release.
Any clarification you can provide will be appreciated.
Several of us out here always excited to hear of potential improvements to eQuest/DOE2.2 to help us with our projects.
Thanks! :)
Regards,
James A. Hess, PE, CEM
Senior Energy Engineer
TME, Inc.
Little Rock, AR
ph 501-666-6776
cell 501-351-4667
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jhess@tmecorp.com">jhess@tmecorp.com</a>
-----Original Message-----
From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] On Behalf Of Chris Jones
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 10:04 AM
To: Joe Huang
Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bldg-sim@onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@onebuilding.org</a>
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] White Box Technologies announces the establishment of a Center for Open Source Building Simulations
There were a number of enhancements, paid for by public entities,
implemented in Hirsh's version of DOE2.1e - Dual Fan Dual Duct
system, pumping enhancements, etc. Hirsh was supposed to implement
those enhancements in the LBL version...
At 03:52 PM 1/21/2010, Joe Huang wrote:
</pre><blockquote type="cite"><pre wrap="">Dear Friends and Colleagues,
White Box Technologies wishes to announce its intention to establish
a non-profit Center for Open Source Building Energy Simulations
(COSBES). I admit the title may sound a bit on the grandiose side,
but it capsulizes my thinking on what may help our little world of
building energy simulations - a non-profit non-commercial center on
simulation programs and resources that's in the public domain.
My initial goals are very modest, but my long-range vision is for
the Center to be capable of significant software development and
support, but always open source. My first steps are simply to
maintain an open-source version of DOE-2.1E. DOE-2.1E has been
effectively abandoned by LBNL and DOE for close to a decade. I have
assurances from LBNL that it's only a matter of paperwork for them
to make the program open source, and have communicated to them my
intentions without receiving any objections.
So what would this support consist of, besides making the program
and source code freely available? That would of course depend on the
public's (your) interest and need, which is one reason for this
announcement! But for starters, I have a backlog of completed work
that have never been incorporated into the public release version of
DOE-2.1E, such as two-dimensional and combined response factors for
composite walls, a decent foundation model, and an improved weather
file format. In addition, I'm currently working on contract for
ORNL to incorporate AtticSim into 2.1E. Lastly, I have a license
</pre></blockquote><pre wrap=""><!---->>from LBNL to continue working on my last major work there - a
</pre><blockquote type="cite"><pre wrap="">partially-completed DOE-2 to EnergyPlus translator (doe2ep) that,
funding pending, can be updated to the current EnergyPlus release.
Also in the works and soon to be launched are (1) VisualEPlus, a
graphical user interface for EnergyPlus done by colleagues in China,
and (2) actual-year weather data service accessing NCDC's massive
International Surface Hourly (ISH) data base.
I had originally thought of calling a meeting at ASHRAE to make this
announcement, but then realized that finding a time to meet at
ASHRAE is an impossibility. However, I would be happy to entertain
any questions and comments while at the conference, where I'll
typically be found in TC 4.7 and 4.2 meetings. For course, I'm also
open to questions and comments posted on BLDG-SIM, although my
responses will be somewhat delayed.
--
Joe Huang
White Box Technologies, Inc.
346 Rheem Blvd. Suite 108D
Moraga CA 94556
(o) +925 388 0265
(c) +510 928 2683
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com">yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.whiteboxtechnologies.com">www.whiteboxtechnologies.com</a>
--
Joe Huang
White Box Technologies, Inc.
346 Rheem Blvd. Suite 108D
Moraga CA 94556
(o) +925 388 0265
(c) +510 928 2683
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com">yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.whiteboxtechnologies.com">www.whiteboxtechnologies.com</a>
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To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to
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</pre></blockquote><pre wrap=""><!---->
Chris Jones
14 Oneida Avenue
Toronto, ON M5J 2E3.
Tel. 416-203-7465
Fax. 416-946-1005
_______________________________________________
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</pre></pre>
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