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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Continuous low level exhaust can ensure your occupied space is
positive and the garage is negative, especially under apartments that are not
directly mechanically ventilated.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Can anyone show me a section of an ASHRAE or other code that
prohibits the continuous ventilation of a garage? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I respect USGBC/GBCI's authority to make determinations for their
ratings systems; such as method(s) of determining savings for CO control of
garage fans.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>However, they need to take ownership of those determinations and
apply them consistently and transparently.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Paul Riemer<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Erik Dyrr<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 13, 2009 5:05 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nathan Miller<br>
<b>Cc:</b> bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] GBCI approval of carbon monoxide control of
garage fans?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>I don't know what section of 90.1
requires garage ventilation control either. Nathen's assumption that CO
controlled garage ventilation fans rarely run is correct. We did a fair
amount of M&V for a utility that rebated CO control retrofits.
Significant savings were achieved. Most systems ran 24/7 and CO systems
rarely operated.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'>I think if you clearly make the case for the baseline
and take a conservative estimate of the proposed, it will get accepted. I
was preparing to submit a project in this manner when it went bankrupt and came
to a halt!<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 9:13 AM,
Nathan Miller <<a href="mailto:nathanm@rushingco.com">nathanm@rushingco.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'>I know this is a contentious issue on bldg-sim regarding
whether this should be a allowable measure or not. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'>I can tell you that on a recent office building project
(LEED-NC v2.2) we submitted for energy savings from garage CO sensors. The only
comment we got from the reviewer was that “ASHRAE mandates some sort of
timed control or CO control as part of the mandatory measures,” so we
couldn’t compare against a 24/7 constant volume system. I wish they had
quoted a specific section of 90.1 for clarity. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'>We switched the baseline system to be off for ~6 hours during
the night (not in agreement with the IMC requirement for continuous air
movement), and they accepted our energy savings.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'>Our proposed case simply had the fans on a VFD and we created
a custom schedule, which we presented to the reviewer, to reflect that the fans
typically were at their lowest setting, and only ramped up for peak commuting
hours (small peaks for morning and lunch, big peak at end of the day when all
the cold engines start up and really put out the CO). <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'>It is unclear to me if you are modeling a residential garage,
where there may genuinely be 24/7 use, if you get to compare to a 24/7 constant
volume system. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'>Nathan Miller<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><i>Senior Energy Engineer/Mechanical Engineer</i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'>direct: 206.788.4577<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'>fax: 206.285.7111 <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><b>From:</b> <a
href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>James Hansen<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 12, 2009 8:09 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Bldg-sim] GBCI approval of carbon monoxide control of garage
fans?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'>Does anyone know if the GBCI reviewers are currently
accepting ECMs based off of garage carbon monoxide sensors to index garage
fans? Or if this can actually be included in the model with appropriate
explanation?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'>IMC requires constant ventilation for enclosed garages, but
allows CO-based systems to activate the fans. This equates to a
substantial energy savings since most systems like this only operate a few
hours in the morning, evening, and at lunch (other than the minimum 0.05 cfm /
sq ft continuous ventilation required by the IMC).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'>If we explain the system, and explain our assumptions for the
use schedules that dictate the proposed building fan schedules for the garage,
is this acceptable?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'>Do they require any backup support/studies for exactly how
often the CO levels will rise above acceptable limits, or is it sufficient to
make a conservative assumption that the garage fans will operate from 7-9am,
11-1pm, and 4-6pm at full load? In my engineering experience, CO-based
systems rarely run, and the circulation fans throughout the garage (which
approximate the continuous 0.05 cfm / sq ft requirements of the IMC CO-based
systems) are what really prevent isolated CO buildup.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'>Thanks in advance,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><b>GHT Limited<br>
James Hansen, PE, LEED AP</b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><b>Senior Associate</b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'>1010 N. Glebe Rd, Suite 200<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'>Arlington, VA 22201-4749<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'>703-338-5754 (Cell)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
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