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<title>Re: [Bldg-sim] Baseline Modeling for LEED</title>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">To add to this the ECB subcommittee of ASHRAE 90.1 has ruled an interpretation restating that the ventilation requirements of G3.1.2.5
are “energy neutral.” Otherwise stated the <u>total</u> ventilation requirement (i.e. building total outdoor air intake flow) for the proposed model must be the same as the baseline model.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma"> Christopher
Schaffner [mailto:chris@greenengineer.com] <br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Friday, November 20, 2009 10:32 AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> Vikram Sami; Nathan Miller; Rimes, Christie; Steven Rutter; bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Baseline Modeling for LEED</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<font size="2" face="Verdana"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:Verdana">Under current LEED EAc1/ASHRAE 90.1: Use the same ventilation rate in both base and design cases, with a few limited exceptions (read the CIRs about lab air change rates, etc.)<br>
<br>
This will likely evolve for LEED 2012.<br>
<br>
Chris Schaffner, PE<br>
Vice-Chair EA TAG <br>
<br>
<br>
On 11/19/09 5:19 PM, "Vikram Sami" <<a href="VSami@lasarchitect.com">VSami@lasarchitect.com</a>> wrote:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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12.0pt;margin-left:.5in">
<font size="2" color="#0000b4" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#0000B4">I always assumed that if you went to 30% extra, you kept the baseline at 100%, and the designed building at 130%, but after reading this, it does
seem to make sense that you would increase both occurrences. <br>
<br>
Can anyone from the EA Tag chime in?<br>
<br>
</span></font><font size="2" face="Verdana"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:Verdana"><br>
</span></font><b><font face="Garamond"><span style="font-family:Garamond;
font-weight:bold">Vikram Sami,</span></font></b><font color="#0000b4"><span style="color:#0000B4">
</span></font><font face="Garamond"><span style="font-family:Garamond">LEED AP</span></font><font color="#0000b4"><span style="color:#0000B4">
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</span></font><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma">
<a href="bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [<a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Nathan Miller<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, November 19, 2009 4:42 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> 'Rimes, Christie'; 'Steven Rutter';
<a href="bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Baseline Modeling for LEED<br>
</span></font><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:Calibri"><br>
<font color="#1f497d"><span style="color:#1F497D">I disagree, I believe the models should be same-same on ventilation rates. See section 90.1 (2004) Section G3.1.2.5. It states:<br>
<br>
“Minimum outdoor air ventilation rates should be the same for the proposed and baseline building designs.”<br>
<br>
In my projects (including those that include 30% additional outside air), I have always used the same outdoor air flow rates, unless I was taking credit for demand control ventilation in the proposed case (see the exception allowed in that same ASHRAE section).
<br>
<br>
</span></font></span></font><font size="2" face="Verdana"><span style="font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Verdana"><br>
</span></font><font color="#1f497d" face="Verdana"><span style="font-family:Verdana;
color:#1F497D">Nathan Miller<br>
</span></font><i><font size="2" color="#1f497d"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
color:#1F497D;font-style:italic">Senior Energy Engineer/Mechanical Engineer<br>
</span></font></i><font size="2" color="#1f497d"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
color:#1F497D">direct: 206.788.4577<br>
fax: 206.285.7111 <br>
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</span></font><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma">
<a href="bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [<a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Rimes, Christie<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, November 19, 2009 1:32 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> Steven Rutter; <a href="bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">
bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Baseline Modeling for LEED<br>
</span></font><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:Calibri"><br>
<font color="#1f497d"><span style="color:#1F497D">In my experience you do not increase the baseline energy model as you are being awarded (gaining that point) when you achieve the ventilation credit. There are a few similar situations in LEED where by achieving
one credit will prevent you from achieving another but this happens to everyone so it works out to be somewhat fair.
<br>
<br>
</span></font></span></font><font size="2" face="Verdana"><span style="font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Verdana"><br>
</span></font><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D"><img border="0" width="591" height="170" id="_x0000_i1025" src="cid:image003.jpg@01CA69ED.CF6419D0"><br>
<br>
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font-family:Verdana"><br>
</span></font><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma">
<a href="bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [<a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Steven Rutter<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, November 19, 2009 1:25 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> <a href="bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">
bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> [Bldg-sim] Baseline Modeling for LEED<br>
</span></font><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:Calibri"><br>
All,<br>
There is a credit in LEED (EQc2.0) that involves increasing the required ventilation rate by 30%. In trying to achieve this credit, the amount of energy would have to increase to condition that additional 30% OSA. Does anyone know if you are supposed to increase
the baseline energy model’s ventilation rate so it has the same ventilation rate as the proposed building? Thank you in advance for your help.<br>
<br>
<br>
</span></font><b><font size="2" color="gray" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:gray;font-weight:bold">Steven Rutter, LEED</span></font></b><b><font size="1" color="gray" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:gray;font-weight:bold">®</span></font></b><b><font size="2" color="gray" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:gray;
font-weight:bold">
AP, EIT<br>
</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:Calibri"><br>
<img border="0" width="180" height="44" id="_x0000_i1026" src="cid:image002.jpg@01CA69ED.6F8EDE00"><br>
</span></font><b><font size="2" color="gray" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:
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