<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><div></div><div><div>Using IES</div><div><br></div><div>The approach I recommend for modelling gains from swimming pools is as follows. 1. Sensible heat gain. Represent the body of water as a room, maintained at a constant temperature. Represent the surface of the water as a window, consisting of a single pane with properties: transmittance=1, absorptance=0, reflectance=0, refractive index=1. This takes care of the sensible gain from the pool to the space above it. The software will of course generate a load for heating the pool, which you can either use or ignore depending on the aim of the study. You will need to set a low surface resistance for the construction representing the downward-facing side of the surface. Do this is APcdb by unticking the default box for either Inside or Outside Surface
Resistance (as explained below) and typing in the value 0.01 m2K/W. You need to decide whether the downward-facing side is ‘inside’ or ‘outside’ by applying the convention that the inside surface is the one facing the room that appears first on the ModelIT browser. When you’ve made this change you’ll see surface temperatures close to those for the pool water. 3. Latent heat gain. Evaporation of pool water constitutes a latent gain to the space above. The software will not calculate this for you, but you can estimate it. An accurate estimate of this gain would take account of the vapour pressure difference between the pool (saturated) and the air, as well as the area of the pool surface (corrected for waves) and the area of wetted surfaces around it. Some of these parameters are difficult to estimate, and I recommend you use figures provided by equipment manufacturers. A number of these can be found on the web, and this one from Desert Aire
is useful (see Table 3): www.desert-aire.com/pdf/AN/an10.pdf </div><div><br></div> </div>Regards,<br><br><div>Sanjay Cholekar<br>+919326229841<br><br><div><br></div><div style="font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><br><div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><hr size="1"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> "Bishop, Bill" <wbishop@pathfinder-ea.com><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> lasmith_architect.leed@yahoo.com; bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tue, 3 November, 2009 6:30:38 PM<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Therapy Pool Simulation<br></font><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;">Larry,</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;">I’ve modeled a natatorium in TRACE
but it shouldn’t be a problem in eQUEST. The pool is a latent load on the
space and also a water heating load. You will need to know/select the water
temperature, space temperature, <span class="GramE">space</span> humidity and
ventilation rate. I suggest using the ASHRAE Handbook - Applications p4.6 for
guidance, as well as product literature for natatorium air handling systems. For
water heating, you will have to make up the latent load as well as account for emptying/refilling
the pool for regular cleaning.</span></font></p>
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font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;">Regards,</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;">Bill</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;"> </span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b style=""><font size="2" color="black" face="Franklin Gothic Medium"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Medium";color:black;font-weight:bold;">William Bishop, EIT, LEED<sup>®</sup> AP </span></font></b><b style=""><font size="2" color="#006600" face="Franklin Gothic Medium"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Medium";color:#006600;font-weight:bold;">|</span></font></b><b style=""><font size="2" color="black" face="Franklin Gothic Medium"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Medium";color:black;font-weight:bold;"> </span></font></b><b style=""><font size="2" color="black" face="Franklin Gothic Medium"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Franklin Gothic Medium";color:black;font-weight:bold;">Pathfinder Engineers &
Architects LLP</span></font></b><b><font size="2" color="black" face="Franklin Gothic Medium"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Medium";color:black;font-weight:bold;"></span></font></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="1" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="
font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;">Mechanical Engineer</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="1" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;">134 South Fitzhugh Street</span></font><font size="1" color="navy"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:navy;"><br>
</span></font><font size="1" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;">Rochester</span></font><font size="1" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;">, NY
14608</span></font><font size="1" color="navy"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:navy;"><br>
</span></font><font size="1" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;">T: (585) 325-6004 </span></font><font size="1" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;">Ext. 114</span></font><font size="1" color="navy"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:navy;"><br>
</span></font><font size="1" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;">F: (585) 325-6005</span></font><font size="1" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black;"></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="1" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="
font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;">wbishop@pathfinder-ea.com</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="1" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="
font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;">www.pathfinder-ea.com</span></font><font color="navy"><span style="color:navy;"></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="5" color="green" face="Webdings"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:green;">P</span></font><font color="green"><span style="color:green;"> </span></font><font size="1" color="green"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;color:green;">Please strive to live
sustainably.</span></font><font color="green"><span style="color:green;"></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold;">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;">
bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b><span style="
font-weight:bold;">On Behalf Of </span></b>Jeff Haberl<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Monday, November 02, 2009
9:29 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b>
'lasmith_architect.leed@yahoo.com'; 'bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org'<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Therapy
Pool Simulation</span></font></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy;">FYI. <br>
<br>
We tried to simulate this back in 1985 with DOE-2 by forcing the loads to equal
measured amounts and got somewhat close. Measured data included the pool
evaporation rate and ice rink refrigeration load. This was published in an
ASHRAE Transactions paper. <br>
<br>
Also, there are some papers published on predicted evaporation rates from
exposed pools. Several are listed in the apx to the FCHART manual. <br>
<br>
Otherwise, you can guess. <br>
<br>
Jeff <br>
BB 8=! 8=) :=) 8=) ;=) 8=) 8=( 8=) :=') 8=) 8=) 8=? BB <br>
<br>
Jeff S. Haberl, Ph.D., P.E., FASHRAE...................jhaberl@esl.tamu.edu <br>
<br>
Professor......................................................Office Ph:
979-845-6507 <br>
<br>
Department of Architecture.......................Lab Ph: 979-845-6065 <br>
<br>
Energy Systems Laboratory.......................FAX: 979-862-2457 <br>
<br>
Texas A&M
University ..............................77843-3581
<br>
<br>
College Station ,
Texas , USA .......................URL:
www-esl.tamu.edu <br>
<br>
BB 8=/ 8=) :=) 8=) ;=) 8=) 8=() 8=) 8=? 8=) 8=) 8= BB </span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold;">From</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;">:
bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
<bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">To</span></b>: bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org
<bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent</span></b>: Mon Nov 02 18:17:15 2009<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject</span></b>: [Bldg-sim] Therapy Pool
Simulation </span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;">Has anyone used EQUEST to simulate an
indoor pool or therapy pool performance? If so please provide
some pointers. If not what program would you suggest using?<br>
</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><b><font size="2" color="#007f40" face="Comic Sans MS"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#007F40;">Larry Smith</span></font></b></strong><font size="2" color="#007f40" face="Comic Sans MS"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#007F40;"><br>
Architect Energy Consultant</span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;"></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="
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</span></font><font size="2" color="#007f40" face="Comic Sans MS"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#007F40;">phone 206-218-2572</span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;"></span></font></p>
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