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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I have a question directly related to this,
especially given James’ comment regarding high vs low mass boilers.
Has anyone changed the START-UP-TIME or STANDBY-TIME for boilers from the DOE-2
default values? If so can you also share the basis you used to arrive at
the numbers? I know that these are not simple numbers to arrive at; I’m
just interested in what others might have done or related comments. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoAutoSig><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>Michael L Kingsley</span></font><font
size=2 color=navy><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:windowtext;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:windowtext'> bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>James V. Dirkes <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City
w:st="on">II</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">PE</st1:State></st1:place><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, August 10, 2009 7:03
PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> 'Cramer Silkworth';
bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Bldg-sim] boiler
curves - HIR-FPLR</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Dear Cramer,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>20 - 25 years ago I was re-writing the
ASEAM code, and did some digging for DOE boiler part load curves. More
recently, I've used them in Energy Plus and have shown below the values I
use. No original documentation here, but this might help...</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><img width=1001 height=242 id="_x0000_i1025"
src="cid:image001.jpg@01CA1A76.41F4B620"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Also, I've recently done some analysis
of existing building boiler performance and it seems that the following is
true:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<ul type=disc>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Older "high
mass" / high water volume boilers (think firetube boilers and
the like) tend to have a pretty darn flat efficiency curve</span></font><o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Newer "low
mass" / low water volume boilers show dramatically lower efficiency
at part loads, similar to the DOE curve above.</span></font><o:p></o:p></li>
</ul>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>If I were modeling an older system or a
new system with high water volume and good turndown, I'd probably use a
constant efficiency "curve". Other boilers would get a curve
that resulted in low part load efficiencies.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal align=center style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;text-align:center'><b><font size=4 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-weight:bold'>The Building Performance Team<br>
</span></font>James V. Dirkes II, P.E., LEED AP<br>
</b><st1:Street w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on">1631 Acacia Drive NW</st1:address></st1:Street><br>
<st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Grand Rapids</st1:City>, <st1:State
w:st="on">MI</st1:State> <st1:PostalCode w:st="on">49504</st1:PostalCode></st1:place><br>
616 450 8653<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabIndex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org]
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Cramer Silkworth<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, August 10, 2009 5:11
PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [Bldg-sim] boiler curves
- HIR-FPLR</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'>Hi All,<br>
<br>
I'm looking for some typical/default PLR efficiency curves for a boiler for a
LEED model. I'm using trnsys for the model, but I've been digging through the
DOE-2 documentation to try to find a typical default curve to use. I've traced
it to the "HIR-FPLR" keyword, but can't figure out where this curve
is actually described. Can anyone point me to where I can find the actual
equation?<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Cramer</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>-- <br>
</span></font><b><font size=1 face=Arial><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>J. Cramer Silkworth<br>
Transsolar Climate Engineering<br>
Technical consulting for energy efficiency and environmental quality in
buildings.<br>
134 Spring Street, <st1:address w:st="on"><st1:Street w:st="on">Suite</st1:Street>
601</st1:address><br>
<st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">New York</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">NY</st1:State>
<st1:PostalCode w:st="on">10012</st1:PostalCode></st1:place><br>
212-219-2255<br>
<a href="mailto:silkworth@transsolar.com"
title="mailto:silkworth@transsolar.com">silkworth@transsolar.com</a> </span></font></b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
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