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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:#1F497D'>Hi James,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:#1F497D'>As far as I’m concerned the main point of having project teams
break the fan energy down into components is to ensure that the baseline fan
power derived from the fan supply volume using Table G3.1.2.9 is not all
attributed to supply fans if exhaust fans, return fans, etc. exist. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:#1F497D'>Regarding the breakdown, as far as I know you’re correct in that
there is no guidance on that and what I do is take the percentages based on
total fan power from the proposed case and apply it to the baseline case (e.g. 70%
supply, 20% return, 10% exhaust).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:0in'><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:#1F497D'>Best Regards,</span><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:0in'><span style='color:#1F497D'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:0in'><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:#1F497D'>Gregg Liddick, EIT, LEED<sup>®</sup> AP</span><span
style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:0in'><span style='color:#1F497D'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:0in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>The Epsten Group, Inc.</span><span
style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:0in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:0in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>Atlanta GA 30312</span><span
style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:0in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
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href="http://www.theepstengroup.com" target="_blank"><span style='color:#1F497D'>www.theepstengroup.com</span></a></span><span
style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:0in'><span style='color:#1F497D'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:0in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#00B050'>Please consider the
environment before printing this e-mail.</span><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:0in'><span style='color:#1F497D'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:0in'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>James Hess<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 02, 2009 10:28 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Bldg-Sim<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Appendix G Fan Power<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>We got a review comment on a recent LEED project asking us
to break down the baseline HVAC power into components even though there is no
direction, or requirement, from 90.1-2004 to do so.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Can someone please help me understand why this would be
necessary? <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>LEED guidelines say we have to model per Appendix G, but
Appendix G doesn't say we have to do this.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>I do not think it is necessary to do this as the baseline
total fan energy consumption numbers would still be the same.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>The equation in Appendix G is meant to give a total
allowance (for each system) for supply, return, and exhaust fans. It doesn't
matter if we break the allowance down into components or not as the total fan
energy consumption remains the same. Therefore, there is no value in doing
this.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>If we did break the fan energy numbers into components, how
would we do that given that there is no direction from ASHRAE or LEED on how to
do this?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Thoughts?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>James A. Hess, PE, CEM<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Energy Engineer<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>TME, Inc.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
On Jul 2, 2009, at 8:41 AM, "Jeremy Poling" <<a
href="mailto:jpoling@epsteinglobal.com">jpoling@epsteinglobal.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>This issue will start to become a problem for anyone running energy
models for LEED projects – reviewers on the new review teams are asking to see
the total fan power for the baseline broken into individual components and
reported as such in the template for Energy and Atmosphere Credit 1. The
90.1-2004 User’s Manual is also silent on the issue; however it raises another
issue. In the example (Example G-J on page G-28) the calculations use
total building supply CFM for an 80,000SF medical office building. Since
the baseline is System 5 in that example and there would be multiple zones for
the baseline, it appears that the equation should be used for the whole building
only and not individual systems. Is this how you are applying the
formulas? The user’s manual notes that fan powered VAV boxes are NOT
included in the total fan power number as calculated from G3.1.2.9.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><strong><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Jeremy R. Poling, LEED AP</span></strong><span style='font-size:
9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'><br>
</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Senior Sustainability Analyst<br>
Strategic Services</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><i><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Site Solutions | Operations | Sustainability</span></i><span
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<br>
</span><strong><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#C75B12'>EPSTEIN</span></strong><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'><br>
</span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Architecture<br>
Interiors<br>
Engineering<br>
Construction</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><br>
<br>
</span><strong><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:green'>Epstein is a firm believer in sustainability. We ask that you
please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.</span></strong><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='margin-left:0in;text-align:center'><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a
href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ellen
Franconi<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 02, 2009 7:37 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Vikram Sami; Bldg-Sim; Michael I Rosenberg<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Appendix G Fan Power</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>At
my firm, we proportion the baseline total fan power determined as an aggregated
W/CFM based on the hp assigned to the fan motors
(supply, return, exhaust) in the design documents. Of course this assumes
that your baseline and your proposed design have a one-to-one fan
correspondence. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Ellen</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Ellen
Franconi, Ph.D., LEED AP<br>
Senior Energy Analyst<br>
Architectural Energy Corporation<br>
2540 Frontier Avenue<br>
Boulder, CO 80301<br>
tel. 303-444-4149<br>
fax 303-444-4303<br>
<a href="mailto:efranconi@archenergy.com">efranconi@archenergy.com</a><br>
<a href="http://www.archenergy.com/">http://www.archenergy.com/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
>>> "Rosenberg, Michael I" <<a
href="mailto:michael.rosenberg@pnl.gov">michael.rosenberg@pnl.gov</a>>
7/1/2009 4:48 PM >>></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>You
have calculated the kW/cfm correctly according to the 2004 version of Appendix
G. The allowance actually goes up a little in 2007, for your case. As for the
second part of your question, no you do not apply the same kW/cfm to the
exhaust fan. The calculated allowed fan power the total allowed power for all
fans that are part of the system, including the exhaust fan. The cfm component
is based on the supply fan cfm only. Unfortunately, Appendix G gives no
direction on how to divide the allowed fan power up among the various fans in
the system. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Mike</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#D47500'>__________________________</span></b><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Michael Rosenberg</span></b><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'> <br>
</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Senior
Commercial Buildings Energy Analyst</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'> <br>
</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>ENERGY
& ENVIRONMENT DIRECTORATE </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Pacific
Northwest National Laboratory </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
"Times New Roman","serif"'><br>
</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>2032
Todd Street </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><br>
</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Eugene,
OR 97405 </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><br>
</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>(541)
844-1960 </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><br>
</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><a
href="mailto:michael.rosenberg@pnl.gov">michael.rosenberg@pnl.gov</a> </span><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><br>
</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:#D47500'><a href="http://www.pnl.gov">www.pnl.gov</a></span><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
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href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Vikram Sami<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 01, 2009 3:03 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Bldg-Sim<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Bldg-sim] Appendix G Fan Power</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>G3.1.2.9 Gives you a formula for calculating system fan
electrical power for supply, return, exhaust and relief. Lets sat I have a zone
with a PSZ-HP that has a supply volume of 1500 cfm. Using this formula along
with table G3.1.2.9 I get a fan horse power of 1.29 and kW of 1.17. This
equates to 0.00078 kW/cfm – which seems really high. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>The second part to my question is assuming I have 500cfm of
exhaust in this zone, do I apply the same kW/cfm to the exhaust fans as well as
the return fans? It seems that the lower the fan volume the more inefficient
the Appendix G values get from these tables. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Any guidance would be much appreciated. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
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